Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery...

[JollyRogers]

At least that's what the imitators tell everyone!

And on that note: I have come here to prostrate myself at the feet of the fire god Zelph to beg his permission to use a similar pattern for my windscreens. (The crimping, but not the hole pattern).

You are the only one I have seen do this, so I give you credit for it. But I don't want to do so if it will make any bad vibes, especially since I am planning on packaging them with my cook set. In exchange for your permission I would be willing sacrifice a shiny new Jack Stove Cook set to the fire god to ensure no lawyers or Chicago-style lobbyists with names like "Guido" or "Luigi" show up at my door.

What say you, oh fiery one?

[zelph]

Send me a sample to see if it's similar or an exact copy. I'll give you an address to send it to in a pm.

[JollyRogers]

Got your PM. PM sent back!

[JollyRogers]

I think I was pretty clear in my first post, it will not be an exact copy. The positioning and the shape of the holes is completely different. I also don't know what the size of your windscreen is so exact copies are really a non-issue. I tried to send you a PM but I'm not sure it went as it still shows in my out box and there is nothing in my sent box. Yet there is a sent time of 2:31PM. Does this message board not put something in the sent folder until it is read?

All I am going to do is crimp my windscreen material so it will have a similar texture and rigidity to yours. I'm not really sure why you asked me to send you one of my windscreens before you decide. It would be easier and faster to just post a picture or a video. Isn't this a forum for sharing ideas? I suppose I can send you one but if I have to go out and buy the tools/materials only to have you not like it well then I am just SOL for trying to be a nice guy.

Sorry but your response hits me the wrong way. I fell that the part about seeing if it was similar or an exact copy is especially callous.

Feel free to call me oversensitive, but I feel like I have just been called a thief, or at least under suspicion of thievery until evidence is provided that proves otherwise.
Please forgive me, but I don't like or appreciate that feeling one bit.

[ConnieD]

Hi, JollyRogers.

My PM's stay in my Outbox until the following morning, sometimes more days if zelph is busy making stoves.

I wouldn't take it hard, it is still sitting there.

If I have ten PM's in my Inbox, my Inbox is full.

I make a copy of my messages, download it to my laptop, and, I Delete messages so I can receive more messages.

No doubt, he has to Delete messages, when he is finished with them, so he can receive more messages.

Of course, it could be that no one has ever called him "fire god Zelph" sry, but, I know, I am never going to let him forget that one

Too funny

[zelph]

I think I was pretty clear in my first post, it will not be an exact copy. The positioning and the shape of the holes is completely different. I also don't know what the size of your windscreen is so exact copies are really a non-issue. I tried to send you a PM but I'm not sure it went as it still shows in my out box and there is nothing in my sent box. Yet there is a sent time of 2:31PM. Does this message board not put something in the sent folder until it is read?

All I am going to do is crimp my windscreen material so it will have a similar texture and rigidity to yours. I'm not really sure why you asked me to send you one of my windscreens before you decide. It would be easier and faster to just post a picture or a video. Isn't this a forum for sharing ideas? I suppose I can send you one but if I have to go out and buy the tools/materials only to have you not like it well then I am just SOL for trying to be a nice guy.

Sorry but your response hits me the wrong way. I fell that the part about seeing if it was similar or an exact copy is especially callous.

Feel free to call me oversensitive, but I feel like I have just been called a thief, or at least under suspicion of thievery until evidence is provided that proves otherwise.
Please forgive me, but I don't like or appreciate that feeling one bit.

Well well well!!!! I replied to your pm before I read this post.

If you would have kept this a private matter and asked me in a pm instead of a thread maybe things would have turned out different.

And on that note: I have come here to prostrate myself at the feet of the fire god Zelph to beg his permission to use a similar pattern for my windscreens.

My answer is "no"

I am not a fire god, just a plain ole stovie.

Sorry you were offended. I meant no harm.

[JollyRogers]

Well, it was quite civil until you accused me of thievery for something I hadn't even made or acquired the tools/materials for. And then demanded a prototype be made and sent to you so that you could render your decision.

Also you did read this before you responded to my PM, because in the PM you said you were going to delete my post on the message board.

Fact is, I was being courteous and you chose to be insulting. I do not need your permission on how I choose to bend metal. If I still have an account here I will post a picture of the finished product.

So if you wanted it to be private you could have made your objections privately via PM instead of being insulting in public.

Good day. Sorry to pee in everyone's pool.

[ridebks]

Would the quote"Be careful what you ask for" be appropriate? WOW!!!

[realityguy]

"Imitation"... sounds like... "looks like the real thing,but unfortunately..Made in China"..Imitation usually appears similar in character but is a knock-off..as in WBS,Zelph windscreen,heinekin pot, or any other "imitation" of the "real deal".Unfortunately the Stove World is full of "imitations" with a 1000 people copying others work,although personally I wouldn't consider copying other's ideas for profit as "flattery".
On a daily basis I scowl at Ikea and items marked "Made in China" that seem to be exact copies of other people's designs,made for profit off of other's plans,testing,making modifications,more testing,etc..a lot of time,work, and money that people have put in to produce their original products and ideas.
My items?Copy away!..why I freely post them and instructions if people want them..but I have no plans to sell them which would make a huge difference if I did.Personally I avoid buying imitations,or try to,in the things I buy.I might make similar items just for the idea that it is possible to make them ...because someone on a website has been kind enough to put the plans out there for the MYOG philosphy and people interested in it....and I thank them for doing so;but there is no intent to resell ideas.Yes,I have made Heiniken pots,aluminum windscreens,used ziploc plastic containers with bubble wrap cozies,jetted stoves,wicked stoves,penny stoves,and other ideas that have been freely posted by generous souls on the net..here and at other websites.Usually for myself I do end up making something to use that is totally different..or if people ask,tell them where the original idea came from.I give credit where credit is due.
JMO....

[stevebo]

I was involved in a similar situation several years ago, but with a very different out come! I really admire good designs, and when I saw the damper design on the feather lite (pack a feather?) stove, saw a use for it on a stove I was working on. I sent the owner/designer a private email, asking for permission to use his design on my stove. (with the intention of possibly selling the stoves some day) Anyway, I recieved a very nice email explaining that he was in the process of applying for a patent and the answer was no. I sent him a email back, thanking him for his time, , and wished him the best of luck with his business.
What was kind of neat about the whole thing, was after looking at other options, I found a damper that worked alot better in my application---- the end result---it took me in a whole new direction, and i ended up finding a creative solution ....................a happy ending, with out all the theatrics!
With any invention, there is going to be some duplication of other peoples work-----but you have an opportunity to add your own creative piece to the whole puzzle. (to me, thats the fun part-----who wants to follow the crowd and copy someone elses design----be a trail blazer, try something new!) As far as making someone elses design to sell, it may not be technically illegal, but I'm a big believer in "professional courtesy"-----------HYOH and dont copy other peoples designs to sell for profit! Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth. (and this isnt the first or last time this ethics issue has come up!)
On a practical note, the market is pretty flooded with "pepsi can stoves" etc-----if you want to sell some stoves, come up with something new!