Starlish(1st Burn)

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zelph
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby zelph » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:39 pm

Put the mesh back in and get rid of the heat transfer ring. Get the mesh to have contact with the cloth fuel absorber.

This photo is cool looking. Looks like you're close to the ocean.


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http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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seudo_411
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby seudo_411 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:06 pm

I ditched the SS screen, and did a burn used a match to pre-heat the strainer and it burned brilliantly great flame height and stability... Will do a second burn tomorrow and then take pictures...It does look very promising... :D
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seudo_411
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby seudo_411 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:11 pm

zelph wrote:Put the mesh back in and get rid of the heat transfer ring. Get the mesh to have contact with the cloth fuel absorber.

This photo is cool looking. Looks like you're close to the ocean.


Image


Thanks Zelph, We are about 40-50 minutes away from the sea... :D
Save space, Live on the edge...

Life might be a Bitch, but at least she knows who her Daddy is...

Tony
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby Tony » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:26 pm

hi Tony;
another option might be to draw up the schematics for the little horizontal burner. you could just sell the plans to home builders, (like myself), who have access to machine shop tools. draw them up as a PDF and you wouldn't even have to ship anything. just wait till you recieve payment, then email the PDF. copywrited, of course.
Daren......


Thanks Daren for the idea, it is a good one but I am not sure how much interest there would be in my designs, I have only one person previously ask for drawings. If you PM me with your e-mail address I am than happy happy to send you or anybody else some drawings. I welcome other canister stove makers, there are not that many of us, I know of one other in OZ and a few in Japan. The burners are not that hard to make but the valves are very time consuming fiddly, I can spend up to 20-30 hours making a valve alone.

Tony I have 5 questions for you,
1.) What temperatures does the the burner itself reach, when in use?
2.) What is the pressure inside a full canister of 80/20 Iso-pro?
3.) Is there a fixed relationship between the rate of fuel consumption and the decrease in temperature and pressure.
4.) How do you determine the jet size and porting, to attain the correct fuel/air ratio?
5.) Is there a difference in the jetting of vapor feed vs. Liquid feed stoves.


They are good questions

1) I do not know the temperature of the burner but will try and measure today.

2)The pressure inside a canister is quite complicated and is related to three things mixture, volume and temperature, Roger Caffins excellent http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/index.html site has some very good information on this topic [url]this page answers your question better than I could http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_M ... xtures.htm[/url]

3) Yes as the pressure drops in a canister the stove flame slows down, the my testing has shown that slow boil times are not less efficient but if the canister gets too cold most the propane boils off first and the butane that is left does not and the stove dies. In a inverted canister this does not happen as the amount of gas that boils off is very small and it has very little heat loss from the latent heat of evaporation. I have had inverted canister stoves working happily at -20C.

4) I do this by trial and error and I pull apart all of my comercial made stove to try and understand what makes them work, but over the years I have learned what sizes to use with my small burners.

5) not really, I have found that the burner size has more effect on jet sizes. I have a range of jets from 0.2mm - 0.5mm that I try

Tony

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seudo_411
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby seudo_411 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:35 pm

Tony wrote:Thanks Daren for the idea, it is a good one but I am not sure how much interest there would be in my designs, I have only one person previously ask for drawings. If you PM me with your e-mail address I am than happy happy to send you or anybody else some drawings. I welcome other canister stove makers, there are not that many of us, I know of one other in OZ and a few in Japan. The burners are not that hard to make but the valves are very time consuming fiddly, I can spend up to 20-30 hours making a valve alone.


I am definaetly in learning more about MYOG canister stoves, I have been playing around at home with a fee things and i have also been looking around the local hardware store for parts, And it looks promissing at the moment, but for now I am helping a friend, and a very beautiful one at that :D , with her little sisters science expo project, Can any one guess what its gonna be...

Tony wrote:1) I do not know the temperature of the burner but will try and measure today.

2)The pressure inside a canister is quite complicated and is related to three things mixture, volume and temperature, Roger Caffins excellent http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/index.html site has some very good information on this topic [url]this page answers your question better than I could http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_M ... xtures.htm[/url]

3) Yes as the pressure drops in a canister the stove flame slows down, the my testing has shown that slow boil times are not less efficient but if the canister gets too cold most the propane boils off first and the butane that is left does not and the stove dies. In a inverted canister this does not happen as the amount of gas that boils off is very small and it has very little heat loss from the latent heat of evaporation. I have had inverted canister stoves working happily at -20C.

4) I do this by trial and error and I pull apart all of my comercial made stove to try and understand what makes them work, but over the years I have learned what sizes to use with my small burners.

5) not really, I have found that the burner size has more effect on jet sizes. I have a range of jets from 0.2mm - 0.5mm that I try

Tony


Thanks Tony I read through the entire site and i have gotten a lot of answers to questions that i had not even thought of.

I'll be ordering the Brunton Stove stand, as well as the Pocket Rocket soon, My plans are to trim the stand of excess weight, As well as replacing the pot stands on the PR, I might even replace the standard jet, bore out the burner holes, and add a collar to the mixing tune that slides to change the gas/air mix, so that its possible to use it as both a liquid feed and vapour feed stove... That much I have worked out the only thing that still escapes me is adding a pre-heat tube to the Pocket Rocket, from looking at the pictures, I assume that i can unscrew the mixing tube from the canister adapter/valve, and possibly add the preheat tube there and fabricate my own stand.. :geek:

If at any point I stop making sense, or my ramblings are to far fetched, feel free to shout "BS"
Save space, Live on the edge...

Life might be a Bitch, but at least she knows who her Daddy is...

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zelph
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby zelph » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:30 am

but for now I am helping a friend, and a very beautiful one at that , with her little sisters science expo project,


That's BS :mrgreen: You're working on a stove. :lol: :lol:
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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seudo_411
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby seudo_411 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:03 pm

zelph wrote:That's BS :mrgreen: You're working on a stove. :lol: :lol:


Of course it is I need to justify my stoving some how... I am gonna find a whole lot of cans and make a few simple stoves, just open burners, and make a few kits as well and then i'll push it as emergency stoves for disaster relief, as well as the recycling and reusing part of it all, add to that that alcohol is renewable, bio-fuel... and hey what can I say... what ever helps me burn/learn right.... :geek: *cue evil laugh and smoke*... But seriously we have been plagued by power cuts and load shedding, where we often sit without power for anything from 1 to 6 hours... so I am really considering pushing these stoves as an alternative to dangerous gas appliances...
Save space, Live on the edge...

Life might be a Bitch, but at least she knows who her Daddy is...

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zelph
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby zelph » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:21 pm

and make a few kits as well and then i'll push it as emergency stoves for disaster relief, as well as the recycling and reusing part of it all, add to that that alcohol is renewable, bio-fuel..


Great idea, that should go over well. Good thinking. Share as you go!!! :D
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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seudo_411
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Re: Starlish(1st Burn)

Postby seudo_411 » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:08 pm

zelph wrote:Great idea, that should go over well. Good thinking. Share as you go!!! :D


Yup, pretty much, The stove I make will be much bigger than usual, for display purposes... i'll be sure to pass the pictures on... :)
But for now I'm awaiting the arrival of my MSR pocket rocket... :mrgreen:
Save space, Live on the edge...

Life might be a Bitch, but at least she knows who her Daddy is...


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