Esbitmizer

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realityguy
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by realityguy » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:51 pm

I think someone on here said they used a caldera cone..probably improves the performance a lot... ;)
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zelph
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by zelph » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:33 am

The cone is a windscreen , so we have to say a windscreen is a necessity at all times when using the esbit. Here are the results of some testing today:

My testing came to a halt when I knocked over my pot of water at the beginning of test 7

Here are the results of todays testing:

Esbit Testing 12/13/12

1. 1:13 to 1:21 = 8 min boil 1:24 boil stops 1:25 Fire Out = 16 min. burn time

2. 1:29 to 1:38 = 9 min. boil 1:41 boil stops…1:45 flame out = 16 min. burn time

3. 1:47 start to 1:57 = 10 min. boil 2:01 Boil stops 2:03 flame out = 16 min burn time.

4. 2:05 start to 2;17 12 min boil 2:18 boil stops 2:22 flame out = 17 min burn time

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2 tests with esbit on flat surface only, no support or in container.


1. 4:00 to 4:08 8 min. boil 4:10 boil stops 4:13 flame out = 13 min. burn time

2. 4:17 to 4:24 8 Min boil…4:28 boil stops 4:30 flame out = 14 min. burn time


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: one cube on flat surface burns 14 min.

Esbit needs to be carried just like alcohol. Esbit is dry and alcohol is wet. A container is needed for both. One has an odor and other not.
The esbit wrapper needs to be disposed of, the alcohol bottle is reusable. In summer, HEET cost $1.00 a bottle, esbit cost 6-7 dollars for 12 cubes. esbit is not readily available. There are one piece alcohol stoves that weigh 1/2 ounce(starlyte) dump in fuel and light. Place foil on ground, place esbit on foil befor it blows away, light, place pot support over it. Pros and cons for both systems.

The esbitmizer has a user friendly simmer feature if you like to really do some trail cooking.

Place the starlyte stove in a fancey feast can to make it simmer. easy simmer device.

Esbitmizer burns alcohol and will not spill out just like the starlyte.
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zelph
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by zelph » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:26 pm

I have received some emails requesting for them to be listed in the store so tomorrow they will be there. :D
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Abela
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by Abela » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:38 am

zelph wrote:You must be boiling less than 2 cups? Or did I read you only get water up into the 180"s
Yeah I usually only care about getting my water up to the [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling#Levels_of_boiling]crab eyes[/url] level. That is more than hot enough for tea, coffee, or re hydrating food.

As for how much water...

Well as you know I have been a major fan/user/promoter of your 2 cup flat-bottom pots.

I have also been known to push the extremes and go out in the summer with a 200 ml setup.

Here recently I have actually made the switch away from these smaller pots/cans and am now mostly using the slightly larger Evernew 600ml pot, and sometimes even the Evernew 0.9l pot, just because I love it so much. I made the switch over to these larger pots because I have found great pleasure is actually cooking my meal inside of a pot, rather than in a bag or tupperware. There is just something about sitting down and cooking up your food, in the pot, that makes trail life a little bit better. On long distance hikes this kind of activity becomes really important to your on-going moral/mindset. The additional 48 grams does not make me happy, but sometimes having some things that do not make you happen, for the sake of it making you happy in other ways, is just part of trail life.

So in regards to the basis of your question... yes, the little 4 gram esbits do struggle to get these slightly larger pots heated up. Pretty much no problem at all with your 2-cup flat-bottom pot. I use two of the 4 grams (so 8g total, compared to 14 grams for the larger/regular size) and usually have no problem getting crab eyes (175'ish) temperatures. With the larger 0.9 pot I do have to use three, but that is still 12 grams compared to 14 grams, and zero left over, partially used esbit left sitting in my pack. Gram for gram, on both a long distance and short distance hike, the 4 grams give you a better weight to performance ratio then the 14 gram cubes do. So weight together with not having half-used cubes, together with less pack space (bulk) makes these a better option - as least as I see it. The problem is trying to find them. In trail stores they are non-existent. It is hard enough finding 14g esbit cubes on the big three trails here in the USA. These little guys are probably impossible. So, I just order up a case or two a year and throw them into maildrops and/or stashes.

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zelph
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by zelph » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:28 am

I like "crab eyes" to describe the state of heating water to almost boiling. :D

Yes, I have seen your site and how you use the Foster can. Thank you for sharing that information with all your viewers. I'm not sure how much longer the Foster beer will be available. The last time I purchased 6 cases I had to wait 2 weeks to get it. I purchase from a store that really has a high volume liquor department. The Miller brewing company may be cutting back on production. So I may have to redo my thinking of how to make availble the can. I recently made up a dozen cans with aluminum bottoms. The can without lid weighs 21 grams. If I make "kits only" available, that might be the way of the future. Like SULUK does.

Cooking in a pot sounds nice but the formation of lime depositing from "hard" water that we get on the trail bothers my thinking. The more the pot is used the crustier the pot becomes. That makes me think food is going to stick to the lime deposits and be harder to clean. Is your evernew non-stick? I use wood as fuel and provides me with "really important to your on-going moral/mindset" that you mentioned. Wood fires take me into a mellow/peaceful world.
the 4 grams give you a better weight to performance ratio then the 14 gram cubes do
I can see how that would be the most efficeint way to go. I don't like the idea of having a partial left over. My testsing has shown they are hard to light.

I've only seen the 4 gram tablets on line. You may be able to find them in the better hobby stores that have "steam powered" engine kits. They use the small size esbits. I could not find the large locally and had to purchase online. I'll offer 2 large cubes with the purchase of an esbitmizer.

I've had enough people email me asking if they will be for sale so I am making them available today.

Here is a link to the esbitmizer page at zelphs-stoveworks:

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/esbit-esbitmizer.php
.
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zelph
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by zelph » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:09 pm

Yesterday I received in the mail some nice aluminised ziploc type bags that are made to be opened and closed many times. Really heavy duty. Just the right size to hold 12 esbits tabs easily. The tabs have been removed from the factory plastic packaging and are floating around freely in the aluminised bag. I'm testing to see if their odor will penetrate the closed bag. I have the bag of tabs enclosed in another plastic bag so that I can open outer bag slowly and have my nose right there to take a whiff to see if any odor leaked out. This kind of bag would be nice to have in order to transport your esbit without getting the odor inside your pack.

The bag is food grade also so I'm going to be testing it to see if I can boil food inside of it. I've read that some folks are interested in a bag to cook food in so their pot will not have to be washed. Sounds like young single guys that don't like doing dishes. I can see their point :D I have cooked some meals that left a nice hard packed ring around the water line that took more time than I really wanted to spend on getting it cleaned off. BearCreek brand makes some great tasting potato soup that needs to be cooked for a while which makes for a pot that's hard to clean. Anyway, I'm going to do some boil tests in it to see how the seams hold up.
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zelph
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by zelph » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:34 pm

I did a boil test of the bag.

I put the bag of 2 cups of water in the pot that have approx. the same amount of water and turned the gas on. Both heated up at the same time but when the water in the pot came to a boil the water in the bag did not. The water in the pot boiled for at least ten min. and the water in the bag never did come to a boil.

Why didn't the bag-o-water come to a boil? Inquiring minds want to know :D

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zelph
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by zelph » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:45 am

Something I posted at WB.
In a dream not really, just as I was laying in bed ready to doze off I remembered a thread here at WB of a stove that I made called a "Stiletto" The burner was made of a small tea lite candle tin. I placed a perforated cone over the top of it to concentrate the flame onto a small diameter pot. The water in the pot rose to 212 degees but only a 1" diameter of rolling boiling bubbles were visible in the center of the pot. I was able to pick up the pot slightly above the pinpoint flame and move it in a circle and the column of vigorously boiling bubbles moved within the pot.

So, I suspect the bottom of the bag has to be in full contact with the bottom of the pot to acheive the boil within. There are 2 types of bags sold. One type has an expanded base like the one I used, the other is boilable bag that looks like it would conform to the entire bottom of a pot. The bag needs to have close contact in order for the contents to boil. It need that intense heat to activate the rolling boil.

Those of you that said the bag was being insulated from the bottom of the pot were correct.

To be sure I'll order the boilable bag and repeat the test. The bag I used yesterday was a boil-in-bag type. I guess that means pour in boiling water.

I'll see if I can locate the Stilleto Stove thread and get a photo or video.

The seams of the bag held strong and did not leak water overnight.

In another bag of the same type I had 12 esbit cubes that had been removed from original packaging. It was successful in retaining all of the odor.
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zelph
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by zelph » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:02 pm

No matter what I do, the water in a bag is not going to come to a rapid boil or even a low boil. Only the water that touches the metal bottom of the pot will come to the rolling boil. I'll get a copy of the reason why from whiteblaze and bring it back here.

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Abela
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Re: Esbitmizer

Post by Abela » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:56 am

Unless you are needing to sterilize water, forget about the whole "water must be boiling" aspect.

Just a bunch of marketing crap that has come about over the years as companies need to define a base-line for how fast their stoves work.

In the real world (*cough* out on the trail *cough*) a hiker never ever needs to bring their water to a boil, unless they are in a situation where they need to sterilize water or are melting snow.

I suppose there might be some out there who enjoy eating their food when it contains 195(f) or hotter water, but I have never meet anybody who did.

And I am not sure I have ever encountered anybody who consumed their coffee/tea at 195+ degrees either.

The vast majority of dehydrated meals will reconstitute just as fast in 175 degree water as it will in 195 degree water. It has more about ToC (time of contact) than it does temperatures.

So, if you can at least get the bottom of these bags to reach a temperature of 175'ish (which is what appeared in the videos) you should be good to go.

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