the hydrogen generator

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oops56
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by oops56 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:36 am

My motto is "Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained" I try to learn something new every day and this thread has acheived that :mrgreen:[/quote]
There is a car engine that that runs on compressed air see if i can find the story
Man play with fire man get burnt

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Skidsteer
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by Skidsteer » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:09 pm

This may be a stupid question but if it can't work, why are car manufacturer's researching commercial versions?

From Wiki:
Many companies are currently researching the feasibility of building hydrogen cars and most of the automobile manufacturers have begun developing hydrogen cars, see list of fuel cell vehicles. Most of these vehicles are currently only available in demonstration models or in a lease construction in limited numbers and are not yet ready for general public use. The recorded number of hydrogen-powered public vehicles in the United States was 200 as of April 2007, mostly in California.[3] Funding has come from both private and government sources. In May 2008, Wired News reported that "experts say it will be 40 years or more before hydrogen has any meaningful impact on gasoline consumption or global warming, and we can't afford to wait that long. In the meantime, fuel cells are diverting resources from more immediate solutions."[4]
Skids

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oops56
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by oops56 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:40 pm

Man play with fire man get burnt

irrationalsolutions
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by irrationalsolutions » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:52 pm

thats an interesting link i will read it when i have some quiet time.

if you want to try something else one of the first ones i built was in a 2L coke bottle and put a balloon on top of it then while i was waiting for the epoxy to set up i drank the better part of a handle of captain morgan. then when the wife went to the restroom i slipped out the house and grabbed a car battery and hooked it up once the balloon filled up i put a flame to it. really big boom. the wife accused me of trying to blow up the kitchen and i was banished to the great outdoors for any other tests so try it outside and stand back. i would also suggest to use a stick with a flame on the end. burnt arm hair smells really bad and takes a while to grow back
“Do or do not... there is NO try.” Yoda

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zelph
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by zelph » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:00 pm

Interesting comments Oops and Skidsteer.

In October, the e.Volution made its public debut in Johannesburg, South Africa, at the Auto Africa Expo 2000. Zero Pollution said that the car will go on sale in South Africa in 2002, but didn't say when the car would be available in other parts of the world.
In regards to the air powered car, hey Suedo, have you seen any of the air powered cars down your way?

Whoa!!!! look what I found in the garage: A miniture housing for a trial size hydrogen generator :D


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I consider myself warned IRS :mrgreen: I've been banned also :roll: why don't they understand :P

I'll do the long stick method when the time comes ;)
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dlarson
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by dlarson » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:31 pm

One thing to keep in mind guys is the toxic chromium tainted water created by using stainless steel for the electrodes.
Darren mentioned it back in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1073
I did some research on the topic and there seems to be some debate about the levels of chromium. One guy had claimed to drink some of the water from his HHO generator without any negative side effects. However, chromium is a major component of stainless steel and some of it does end up in the water. Technically, it is illegal to dispose of chromium tainted water down the drain or on the ground. Specifically, the chromium used in stainless steel is Hexavalent Chromium or Cr(VI).

So far my HHO experiments have used copper and aluminum for this reason.
"Hiking is just walking where it's O.K. to pee." -Demetri Martin

rusty075
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by rusty075 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:39 pm

Irrat, I’m sorry if I’ve come across gruffly. These online back-and-forths sometimes end up reading like arguments, when in person they would be conversations.

Have your buddy do two tests: one with the generator on, and then another with the generator off, driving the same distance at the same speed, and carefully monitor the gas mileage. I’d bet dollars to donuts that he’s not seeing an 18 to 42mpg boost.


Don’t get me wrong, I really like the idea of making your car more efficient, but the math just doesn’t seem to work.




Another way to think about it….Assume the system works exactly as advertised. The alternator is running at 100% of its rated load all the time, and 100% of that energy is recaptured and fed back into the engine to reduce the amount of gasoline burned:

A typical car/truck alternator is rated for something like 80 Amps. 80Amps x 12v = 960watts. Let’s say 1000 watts, just to make the math simple. If you run the alternator for an hour at that max rate you will produce 1killawatt of power, which is 3.6 million joules, which definitely sounds like a lot of energy. But…a gallon of gasoline contains approximately 121 million joules of energy. So over the course of that hour our 80A alternator will have produced the equivalent of 0.02975 gallons of gasoline. That’s 3.8 ounces of gasoline. Half a cup, spread over an hour.

Real life implications:
-Say for that hour that we were driving along going 60mph and getting 20mpg. So over the course of that hour we went 60 miles, and thus burned 3 gallons of gas. By capturing all 3.6million joules of energy that were possible from our 80A alternator during that hour we could have saved 3.8 ounces of gas….which would have increased our gas mileage to…..


20.2 miles per gallon.



I’m open to other explanations, but I just don’t see how this is supposed to double or triple the efficiency of the whole car.

rusty075
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by rusty075 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:59 pm

Skidsteer wrote:This may be a stupid question but if it can't work, why are car manufacturer's researching commercial versions?
Don't confuse "hydrogen powered car" with "hydrogen generating car".

Powering cars with hydrogen is a great thing. Hydrogen is an awesome fuel - super efficient burning, and the only waste product is plain old water. The WWII German V2 rockets were basically hydrogen powered, in the form of peroxcide, as were many of the early US space rockets.

It's generating the hydrogen in the car as you drive that doesn't work. It's like a ponzy scheme - you're moving the energy from one phase to another, but not really getting anywhere.


A hydrogen generating system that would actually save you money would be to use this exact same idea, but power it with a solar panel or a windmill. Just store up the gas in a compressed tank and transfer it to a cylinder inside the car. It would work in the same way that a nitros kit does.

But of course, like irrat discovered with his balloon, it doesn't take much hydrogen to make a very big boom! If a balloon-full did that, imagine what a scuba tank full of compressed H2 O2 could do if you accidentally set it off. It would make a canister stove failure look like tea candle.

irrationalsolutions
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by irrationalsolutions » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:04 pm

from the people i've talked that have done it the it runs from 25% to double increase. there is a guy that lives around here somewhere i talked to ( i just moved so i'll have to find his number i only met him twice) but he claims to be running a 18 wheeler off two generators made out of 5 gal buckets and two huge alternators at something like 300 amps. now that i will have to see to believe but what we are talking about is a true gas running through the engine that has much more bang for the buck that an atomized liquid like gasoline. and it dosent really have to be air mixed because the oxygen is already there. try a few experiments most can be done with stuff you can find around any house and they dont have to be that big. try it and remember on paper a bee should not be able to fly. at least i think it was a bee.
“Do or do not... there is NO try.” Yoda

Luke "Whats in (out) there?" Yoda "Only what you take with you."

Luke "I can’t believe it." Yoda "That is why you Fail.”

oops56
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Re: the hydrogen generator

Post by oops56 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:50 pm

Ok i am going to settle this. Eat beans get a 5 gal bucket take front seat out put a hose at bottom of bucket to the carburetter sit down and fart your way down the road. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Man play with fire man get burnt

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