Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

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quickpoint
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by quickpoint » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:39 am

Pure Mahem: I don't think you did read my posts nor understood the points despite your complaint about reading them in the other locked topic. I did say the rate of leeching of any plastic goes up with the temperature. It doesn't just leech at boiling point. Your other point is also irrelevant as you did not read my stated point earlier either. As I said 'dropping a sealed bag into boiling water' is quite a different beast to mixing food and boiling/near boiling/hot water and plastics in the same space.

As for calling me a spout: instead of defending Tinny selling to folk a minority of whom might use it often, why don't you line your family kitchen pots with plastics?

Farewell to the forum.

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dlarson
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by dlarson » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:28 pm

OK, here's what I know.

Pretty much any beer can is going to have an interior coating over the aluminum (pg. 26).
Preliminary Industry Characterization: Metal Can Manufacturing--Surface Coating wrote:Waterborne coatings contain a polymer or resin base, water, and organic solvent. The
organic polymers found in water-based coatings include alkyds, polyesters, vinyl acetates,
acrylics, and epoxies, which can be dissolved, dispersed, or emulsified. The water acts as the
main carrier or dispersant, while the organic solvent aids in wetting, viscosity control, and
pigment dispersion.
...
Beverage can manufacturers use waterborne coatings extensively. Waterborne coatings
are used for 2-piece beverage can base coats, overvarnishes, inside sprays, and rim coats.
The interior coating of a beer can is not developed to withstand boiling water at 212 degrees (pg. 29).
Preliminary Industry Characterization: Metal Can Manufacturing--Surface Coating wrote:In general, coatings must exhibit resistance to chemicals, flexibility, and adhesion to
the metal surface. Coatings for beer and certain beverage cans must be able to survive an
aqueous pasteurization cycle of 20-30 minutes at temperatures ranging from 140F to 160F
Heating plastics promotes leaching of toxins into the food.
Studies have shown when cans are heated in the manufacturing process, BPA leaches out of the linings. Foods are first sealed in cans and heated to kill bacteria in the food. Cans are heated to temperatures between 116 C and 121 C, and the length of time varies according to the type of food.
...
Note: This testing also included two beer cans and found they leached between 8 and 9 parts per billion of BPA. As well, a can of apple juice leached 18 parts per billion.

Ziploc freezer bags do not leach toxins so freezer bag cooking is OK (FAQs Page). And since Ziploc may be biased, here's a second resource stating that Polyethylene bags are safe.


My conclusion is that boiling water in just about any aluminum can is unsafe. If the makeup of the internal coating of Heineken 24oz cans can be determined and the coating is of safe materials that's great. But until then it is logical to assume that there is no difference between the Heineken 24oz cans and most other aluminum cans.
Freezer bag cooking, in contrast, is safe until proven otherwise.
"Hiking is just walking where it's O.K. to pee." -Demetri Martin

hoz
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by hoz » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:04 pm

Thanks for the research dlarson. Now how do we get the word out to the legions of lightweight hikers who are sold on the Heinie, Fosters, and whatever aluminum can they can think of, and CONVINCE them they are doing irreparable harm to their bodies?

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zelph
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by zelph » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:23 pm

hoz wrote:Thanks for the research dlarson. Now how do we get the word out to the legions of lightweight hikers who are sold on the Heinie, Fosters, and whatever aluminum can they can think of, and CONVINCE them they are doing irreparable harm to their bodies?
It's been posted on Whiteblaze.net. and Sgt Rock's site.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

sarbar
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by sarbar » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:25 pm

Considering that most hikers only get out at most a couple times a year the whole issue of lined cans is pretty moot to the actual carcinogens you inhale daily......such as the ones from sitting in traffic, in your home water, in your office (that nice wall to wall carpeting does breathe), etc. Heck your home is more dangerous to you than pretty much everything else if you live in a modern tightly sealed home.......
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russb
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by russb » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:06 pm

sarbar wrote:Considering that most hikers only get out at most a couple times a year the whole issue of lined cans is pretty moot to the actual carcinogens you inhale daily......such as the ones from sitting in traffic, in your home water, in your office (that nice wall to wall carpeting does breathe), etc. Heck your home is more dangerous to you than pretty much everything else if you live in a modern tightly sealed home.......
Just another excuse for me to hit the trail! I am going this weekend (8 hours from now actually). All packed and ready. Trying to make my goal of 30 nights on the trail before the year is out.

quickpoint
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by quickpoint » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:01 pm

Thanks for the links dlarson, however your last conclusion is actually advised against by the article you reference:
'Heat promotes leaching:

To be safest, never microwave or heat foods in plastics.'


http://www.care2.com/greenliving/safe-p ... boxes.html
It recommends some for storage and beer liners according to replies so far are not suitable for storage never mind heating or cooking in. All plastics are advised against for cooking or even heating.

As for justifying the profiteering from carcinogens? Why not, indeed. Insane!
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Ridgerunner
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by Ridgerunner » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:00 am

All plastics are advised against for cooking or even heating.
I'm confused here QP. If the previous quote is true then why are there thousands of frozen foods that are recommended to be cooked in their plastic bag. Some do not even require venting until after the food has been cooked or steamed. :?: :?
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sarbar
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by sarbar » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:04 am

russb wrote: Just another excuse for me to hit the trail! I am going this weekend (8 hours from now actually). All packed and ready. Trying to make my goal of 30 nights on the trail before the year is out.
Good for you! :D :D
Freezer Bag Cooking, Trail Cooking, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
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GAGA
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Re: Plastic Lined Beer Cans as Pots

Post by GAGA » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:09 am

sarbar wrote:
russb wrote: Just another excuse for me to hit the trail! I am going this weekend (8 hours from now actually). All packed and ready. Trying to make my goal of 30 nights on the trail before the year is out.
Good for you! :D :D
"russb"] don`t forget :do not eat the yellow snow :D :lol: :mrgreen:
you can pay for school,but you can never buy class!

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