Windscreens and canister stoves

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ConnieD
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Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by ConnieD » Tue May 04, 2010 11:05 pm

What is this about exploding canisters? Huh?

I saw a "post" at a forum, saying, just seconds away from having that canister explode with that windscreen. Huh?

I know everything says the canister and stove should not be "fully enclosed" by a windscreen. But I have seen three-sided windscreens in use since my first deep-frying spatter-shield backpacking stove windscreen.

I was in REI, and I noticed the latest canister stove package instructions about hazards had a picture of a three-sided windscreen. The international symbol was there: do not do this. The exclamation point in a yellow triangle was there.

What is this stuff?

realityguy
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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by realityguy » Wed May 05, 2010 10:39 am

I was in REI, and I noticed the latest canister stove package instructions about hazards had a picture of a three-sided windscreen. The international symbol was there: do not do this. The exclamation point in a yellow triangle was there.

What is this stuff?
As in MacDonald's coffee cups that explicitly say "COFFEE IS HOT!"..REI and stove manufacturers are covering their butt in a litigious society...
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

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zelph
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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by zelph » Wed May 05, 2010 11:30 am

I'm sure many people have been hurt by the rupturing canisters because of the overheating. Sad!!!

Don't eat out of pots made with copper bottoms like the one being sold by maxibulldesigns, consumer alert ;)
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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ConnieD
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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by ConnieD » Wed May 05, 2010 5:17 pm

I was just looking at that thread with the titanium bowl windscreen: it is above the canister.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=20654

scroll down. The thread is interesting.

Here is BackpackingLight article: Exploding Gas Canisters: The Danger of Overheating
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... ating.html

It is a members only article ($25/year, and I think there is a smaller fee to read one article).

It isn't that interesting. It just shows the danger is real.

Here is part of the evaluation of valve failure.

"But we CAN say the following: below 50 °C (122 °F) the material will not flow. Between 50 C and perhaps 80 - 90 °C we are probably OK ... but there is some risk of the stove throttling down the gas flow. Above 106 °C you are REALLY running a risk of the valve shutting off ... and forget it if you reach a temp above 170 °C."

and

"But the smartest trick of all when using an upright canister stove is to check the temperature of the canister occasionally. Touch it with your finger tips, remembering the bit above about 'safe to touch'. If you can easily leave your (unfrozen) fingers on the metal canister, it will be below 50 °C and therefore safe."

The article provides time and temperature to failure.

The conclusion of the article comes back 50 - 55 °C (122 - 131 °F) which is provided by the standards.

The entire article is a good read.

I would think a windscreen above the canister, allowing sufficient air to cool the valve (the critical part) should be "okay".

What do you think? It appears the standard for the manufacturers is 50 - 55 °C (122 - 131 °F) and all the alarming warnings are written to provide a wider safety-margin: Don't do it!

note to Zelph: maxibull, GOOD ONE!

realityguy
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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by realityguy » Wed May 05, 2010 5:33 pm

I wouldn't use a windscreen on a canister stove except maybe put the stove in a large screened off area behind a log,rock,or whatever in a natural environment that still allows adequate air flow but not something that will hinder cooling of the canister.
it doesn't matter how many warnings they put on items,there will still be stupid people that don't heed the warnings and blame the stove manufacturer for not informing them how dumb they are,hence the warnings....Stoves and other dangerous items should come with a posted minimum IQ requirement to use them..but the people that can't use them,can't read the requirements and understand them..so you are back to square one with what I posted above... :lol: I don't blame the manufacturers for posting what they do...
Alcohol stove manufacturers that mess or suggest messing with white gas in their stoves can get into the same fix,especially if they don't post warnings of "Use of other fuels besides alcohol are at your own risk and not recommended!" One small line like that can save millions of dollars in a court of law... :roll:
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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by Ridgerunner » Wed May 05, 2010 6:32 pm

I would think that a three sided windscreen would be no problem at all providing you set it a distance of 5 or 6 inches back from your cannister. JMHO
"Many of lifes failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up".....Thomas Edison

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DarenN
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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by DarenN » Wed May 05, 2010 7:38 pm

i wouldn't place any kind os windscreen around a canister-mount stove that would allow reflected heat back to the canister.
this is why, when i built my UL canister stove, it was designed as a remote stove.

i have one canister stove that has an available windscreen for it. the Snow Peak GS-100. it's not much of a windscreen, but it does a fine job of reflecting heat upwards and away from the canister. it can be added to by using a small foil pie plate to make it more effective as a windscreen. the other option is to use a remote stand for the stove. then you can use a regular foil windscreen.
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ConnieD
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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by ConnieD » Thu May 06, 2010 6:29 pm

The Snow Peak Wind Screen GP-008, is very much like the one depicted in the BPL article. The person with the cut-out titanium "bowl" adaption, in the article, appears to have borrowed from this Snow Peak deflector, I would say, because it has the ventilation and it is above the canister valve. In addition, I should point out, titanium doesn't hold the heat so much as does stainless steel.

In many years past, I have used a three piece hinged "spatter shield" set back about 5-6 inches, to keep the strong wind off my first canister stove, the MSR Pocket Rocket. I had to use tent stakes to hold that one down, so I do mean a strong wind and that was using as much natural cover as I could.

I gave up on the Pocket Rocket, because it was up high and was catching so much wind, and, it tossed my food on the ground. I purchased a number of different cooking pots for it, because I wanted the canister stove idea to work for me. Not one cooking pot would stay on the Pocket Rocket. However, I did not use the narrow base tall-aspect cooking pots (mugs) sold, today. I was using 1.3 liter cooking pots and those pots, even, with a grooved bottom design "skated" right off that stove supports.

Now, we have Snow Peak Lite MAX "stove supports" I like it for my GSI Minimalist.

I tried out my Minimalist cooking pot, at REI, on the Snow Peak Lite MAX and I was convinced. The pot suports practically "grab" that cooking pot.

I think there is valuable information there for stove support design.

Here are pictures:

1. "tall-aspect" cooking pot and canister stove
Image

2. detail-1
Image

3. detail-2 "hinged pot supports"
Image

4. Snow Peak Windscreen
Image

I think that is not a windscreen. I would call that a deflector.

I did not copy the photo from the BPL article, because their article is copyrighted and payment to view is a requirement at BPL.

However, the adaption of the titanium bowl cut-out is similiar.

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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by Ridgerunner » Thu May 06, 2010 7:46 pm

I think that is not a windscreen. I would call that a deflector.
I agree with you ConnieD.

A three sided wind screen set 6" back from your stove allow heat to rise up and out along with open air comining from the open side. It is to be used as a "wind'screen, not to hold radiant heat close to the pot. ;)
"Many of lifes failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up".....Thomas Edison

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ConnieD
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Re: Windscreens and canister stoves

Post by ConnieD » Thu May 06, 2010 10:00 pm

I just realized that BPL Forum is not "subscription only".

Here are pictures of the titanium bowl he used.
Image

Image

This shows what I was trying to describe.

He has used the Snow Peak Wind Screen GP-008 cut -out design, and adding additional drilled holes, he has made the titanium bowl bring the heat close to his "mug" cooking pot.

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