wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Questions or comments about hiking in general? Post them here!
sudden
Posts: 1058
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by sudden » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:03 pm

The two of you get my vote for thread of the year. I learned a lot from connied already. It's nice that we have two people now that share their knowledge.

I can appreciate hunters getting lost because of personal experience. The group I used to hunt with would hike in three miles before we started hunting. At that point we went our separate ways. Our hope was to spend the day and never see another human being. We had a rule that nobody left the woods until we were all back together (we walked in and out in the dark). I only had to leave without the group once when an ash grey sweating hunter found me and I had to get him to the hospital for a helicopter ride. I still made it back by the end of the day to hike out with everyone else in my group.

I had one bad personal experience in the outdoors with hypothermia. Never again. One mistake like that and you learn your lesson. That was back in the younger days when I couldn't afford good gear and thought cotton was good enough. :roll:
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:07 pm

Heh. We don't get vehicle placards, in fact if we get pulled over by a stater or a city cop, we don't even mention being in SAR because of the hell we'd catch from the chief when he found out.
I agree with that. I don't think anyone just doing their job should have priviledges. Even if it is a volunteer.
I hope you can judge SAR members on their individual merits, and not tar us all with the same brush
I don't. That would be "prejudice".

However, I don't gloss over really bad experiences, or, say nothing at all. It's bad. It needs to change.

By the way, the ankle air cast two sides can make two SAM splints. I think those ankle air casts are excellent.

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:11 pm

sudden,

Hypothermia is a great teacher, if you survive it.

It would be good "survival training" to get hosed down in your gear of choice, then, see how well you can manage. Of course, warm food and drink and warm clothing and a warm shelter should be available right there. That is "why" I have a "dry bag" with "extra clothing" and a bivy shelter. Even that, may not be enough.

One time, for real, the trip leader put his ungloved hand on everyone's belly (we had to pull up our outer clothing). The one with the warmest belly got in the sleeping bag to help warm the victim.

I think everyone should learn the initial symptoms, checking others in their party, so it doesn't go that far.

catspa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:28 pm
Location: upper left corner

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by catspa » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 pm

That reminds me of my old buddy Duane. We were practicing knots, and the next weekend every member was gonna have to tie a bowline, a figure 8 and a double fisherman blindfolded. So Duane goes home and gets in his bathroom in his SAR gear, closes the door, flips the light switch off, and stands in a cold shower while he ties each knot with one hand. His GF thought he was plumb crazy, and he told her, "Could you stand up here on a stool and dump a tray of ice cubes over my head, hon?"

Parker

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:24 pm

Gee. We had to learn to tie knots in cold weather.

I am glad no one suggested his method.

We were taught to keep our fingers out of it, as much as possible, using our hands to make the knots because fingers become uncoordinated first in cold weather. Next, we had to tie our knots with gloves and with mittens.

It made us choose our gloves and mittens accordingly.

I liked Millar Mitts fingerless gloves: http://joncrispin.wordpress.com/2011/01 ... lar-mitts/

I also liked over mittens and "hunter" mittens, that had a slash-opening for your fingers.

I finally learned how to keep my fingers out of knot-tying: by sailing. :DB: :DP:

User avatar
zelph
Posts: 15834
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by zelph » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:59 pm

Lots of great information has quickly been addressed, thank you!!!! :D

all hiker/backpackers should take a basic "first aid" course.

Really sincere backpackers should take a "first responders" course.

RealityGuy can attest the need for some serious first aid skills while hiking.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:32 pm

...something like that tragic death can happen, and, has happened.

I feel all those kinds of tragic events are preventable.

It is an extremely rare event, recently. In the '50's people taunted bears in Yellowstone National Park and one resort fed garbage to the grizzly bears for night entertainment for their lodge guests.

I am totally willing to help in a situation involving a mishap or a mistake. Out here, we have tourists who act like they are "elite" and rescuers are "labor". I have done no rescues around here. I am done. Nevertheless, I "helped" with one dead body recovery, by calming people in the surrounding communities who thought it had to be a murder. It was not. I "helped" in another dead body recovery, by telling where to look. I "helped" the dead body recovery because surviving family feel relieved to have "closure" in that kind of distress.

One, was poaching. The other had read a book brought back "in print" by surviving family members. The author would not reprint his book. He knew he "invented" parts of his guidebook, also it was out-of-date where trails and routes no longer existed. It was not "updated". That is a lie. The nice tourist believed what he read. That guidebook has not been removed from the market.

I strongly believe people need to be more "executive" in their thinking, as individuals, have more "backbone" and be more "resourceful".
The wilderness is preserved to give the wild flora and fauna a place to live, and, to give humans a place to experience what it is to experience a natural environment.
The wilderness is a natural environment. In it, we are "MacGyver's" using very little to manage very well in any contingency.
This is what we need to be, for wilderness survival/outdoor first aid.

realityguy
Posts: 5948
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:20 am
Location: slightly north of Seattle,WA

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by realityguy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:00 am

In my circumstance,it wouldn't have helped unless someone was standing alongside the person at the moment of the incident.IHowever..if another person was standing there,it probably wouldn't have happened in the first place.. :roll:
At the time I did kind of feel at a loss as what to do in that type of situation..but the others were trained for that type of emergency,so I did my part elsewhere...Otherwise they more than likely would have had a constant "butt-in-skee" in the matter..literally. :roll:
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

sudden
Posts: 1058
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by sudden » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:54 pm

That whole business of learning to use your hands to tie in cold weather is really important. The luck was still with me when I got to the road and turned in the right direction to the jeep (I was dropped off elsewhere and didn't know where they parked it). The jeep keys were left in the gas cap cover. Then my luck started to run out. I couldn't grab the keys, my fingers just stopped listening. I managed to knock them out of the cap area and they fell in the snow. I had to dig for them for a bit and managed to get them between my hands. Then it was another ten minute ordeal to get the key in the lock. Turning a key is a real adventure when you're not used to holding it between your palms. I got in, more key fun, got it started and that was that.

It was another 6hrs before anyone else got there. I think it would be good to learn what kind of fire you could start using only the palms of your hands. My guess is a lot of casual hikers/hunters would re-think their fire kit.
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:04 pm

sudden,

I had onset of hypothermia, once, outdoors in Montana Winter.

Fortunately, I was taught to recognize the symptoms and, fortunately, I wasn't too far along in symptoms to have "fuzzy thinking". I immediately stopped what I was doing. I got inside, got a wood fire going, put on different (less cold) clothing, got hot soup to drink and I got under two or three sleeping bags. I was carrying two full propane bottles one-half mile in knee-deep plus snow to my trailer. The moment I realized I was in "trouble" I put down the two propane tanks in the snow and got inside. I did injure my lungs, coughing up small chunks of freeze-dried bloody tissue from my lungs. I was breathing that cold air, too deeply, because I was carrying the full propane tanks.

Now I use PolarWrap Exchanger II face mask. I first had P.SolarEX but I cannot find them sold.

It not only protects my lungs. Pre-warming the air, with my own breath, keep me much warmer.

I sleep in it, when I am camping. I sleep warmer.

It also keeps moisture from exhalation of the moist air of breath from getting into my down sleeping bag.

. . .
FireSteel has come up with a palm scraper, added to their large handle firesteel to be used with gloved hands. http://firesteel.com/gobspark-armageddon-firesteel/

I have a UST Blast Match for "one-handed" use. However, it is "fiddly" to open up and you have to hold down the striker lever with your thumb.

Here is one method: In one video zelph scraped one of the smaller Firesteel rods across the top edge of a Fancee Feest. Spark, flame.
. . .

Post Reply