wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

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zelph
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by zelph » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:14 am

catspa wrote:A person with hypothermia usually isn't aware of his or her condition, because the symptoms often begin gradually and because the confused thinking associated with hypothermia prevents self-awareness.

I've seen this a lot, and been grateful for good teammates who could see it in me. Caught early, hypothermia is pretty easy to address, and once warmed up a person can continue as before, and still function well.

I have something to confess concerning firestarting method, though. <hangs head sheepishly, scuffs toe in dirt> I cheat. When I need a fire RFN, no fooling around, without regard for wetness of fuel or other nonsense, I light a road flare and stuff it under whatever wood I've got. It's a stinky, smoky fire but if fuel will burn at all, a road flare will light it off. (I also carry other fire methods for times when the urgency isn't so great.)

Parker
I thought shivering is one of the first signs.

I got a good deal on signal flares at Kmart when they discontinued them. I modified a few by cutting them down to 3" length yo include the striking cap. It fit in the palm of my hand. I'll see if I can locate a photo of one.

Do all SAR teams carry flares?

I have a friend tha is on the SAR organization located on the east coast. He has tried many stoves to carry in his gear pack. He zeroed in on the Fancee Feest and a modified Venom Super Stove as his personal choice for him and his family. The modified Super Stove will burn multiple fuels not normally recommended for alcohol stoves. He was deployed to Haiti to assist in rescue operations when that catastrophe occured.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

sudden
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by sudden » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:58 am

Over exertion and hypothermia should be discussed as a single topic for the outdoors. Unless you fall in water, overexertion usually precedes hypothermia. If you pay attention and pace yourself based on conditions, you can avoid getting into trouble no matter what clothes you have on. Carrying the extra weight of a change of undergarments in cooler weather and the means to dry off quickly should be part of a first aid kit imo.

Maybe we will discover the magic fire starter that works without hands and there are probably a number of drugs you could carry that increase blood flow. If you are thinking about that, you probably don't need to carry either of them. It's easy to avoid hypothermia if you pay attention and pace yourself.

In my case I was young and following someone else's direction. They assumed when they told me to climb to the top of a hill and wait for them to come up from the other side that my young brain would understand it didn't need to charge up the hill :). I was drenched before I got halfway up and I went so fast I ended up waiting 2hrs in high cold winds for the rest of the group to show up. Anyone in my group should have realized I was in trouble when they listened to me trying to talk and saw me shivering uncontrollably and wanting to leave before we even got started. Instead they just pointed to the general direction of the vehicle. Stupid mistake. Since then I treat everyone like a rookie, I just assume they don't know a thing.
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

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ConnieD
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:21 am

zelph,

Orion Signal Flare/Campfire Starter is, basically, a cut-down signal flare.
https://www.orionsignals.com/product-gr ... ct/97.html

sudden,

You do not want to sweat in your clothes. Open them up, remove layers. Ventilate.

However, there is a more insidious side to overexertion: "the bonk".

Many people eat little, drink some, walk along with their pack and hit "the bonk".

They go all hypothermic on you, in mild weather. (40-50 F has the most hypothermia) Why?

In the outdoors, you need more calories and you need to drink more water. Eat food. Eat snacks. Hydrate.

Your companions? I would get "new friends". Seriously.

I need my companions to be reliable. I often go solo because I am better off alone.

I don't think hypothermia needs a separate thread, although I did start a separate thread about starting fires... and I removed a comment I made here and put it over on the Oware AsymTarp1 thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5245&p=42795#p42795 because I thought it should be over there.

I do think prevention of hypothermia and knowing what to do about it, is the most important "wilderness survival/outdoor first aid".

When you read: they died of exposure. They died of hypothermia.

Maybe a separate thread? Whatever.

catspa
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by catspa » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:43 pm

I don't know what other teams carry, but that's what we came up with as an "always reliable" firestarting method. Here in the conditions of the coastal rain forest we need more firestarting advantage than most folks, and a road flare burns hot and long enough to ignite our soggy fuel.

We tried signal flares (which we still carry because they're great for signalling) but they only last 6 or 10 seconds, and sometimes they hit your tinder too hard and scatter it. So the road flare was the cheap alternative.

For a hypothermic patient who is still conscious, we will also give them warm liquid to drink (soup, cocoa, bullion cube). If they can hold the cup and drink on their own, we figure they can swallow without choking.

Parker

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ConnieD
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:21 pm

I notice, reading the fine print,

The Skyblazer Hotshot Fire Starter burns 1200-degrees F for 2 minutes.
The Fire Puck Matchless Fire Starter burns 1400-degrees F for 3 minutes.
The Orion Signal Flare/Campfire Starter burns 3400-degrees F for 5 minutes.

Orion Emergency Road Flares burn at 1400-degrees F for 15, 20 or 30 minutes.

For rescue work, I might want to carry Orion Emergency Road Flares for the coastal Pacific Northwest.

The Orion Alert/Locate Signal Kit looks good for backpacking purposes. The kit includes one Orion Signal Flare/Campfire Starter. I think I would have a PLB or SPOT, if I thought I needed more.

Once I warmed up, I could function. I wanted to rest, but I could function.

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zelph
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by zelph » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:25 pm

It was the orion brand name flare that I modified(3 flares)

I didn't know they made campfire flares for fire starting.

http://www.orionsignals.com/product-gro ... ct/97.html
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

sudden
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by sudden » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:31 pm

That 30 minute road flare should make a nice fire starter in any conditions.
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

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ConnieD
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:33 pm

http://www.orionsignals.com/applications/highway.html

Orion has the Highway Emergency Flares that burn 15, 20, or 30 minutes.

The amount of time depends on which item number you select.

catspa
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by catspa » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:05 pm

My road flares are the 15 minute ones, I just checked. Next time I think I'll look for the 30 min.

For signal flares I carry this: http://www.orionsignals.com/product-gro ... ct/76.html. It'll get a flare up above the timber so an aircraft can see it, and the shells are readily available at Walmart (cheaply) or marine supply stores (expensive). I think if fired laterally it could be a good bear scare also, but I don't know that for a fact as I haven't found any bears who'll cooperate for testing.

Parker

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ConnieD
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Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:16 pm

Depends on what they burn. If phosphorous, it would be a terrible weapon.

Have you used that particular flare launcher?

I wanted to try one, but it was kinda expensive to find out.

On "opening day" I have seen marine flare launchers, that stay up a really long time.

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