wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Questions or comments about hiking in general? Post them here!
realityguy
Posts: 5948
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:20 am
Location: slightly north of Seattle,WA

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by realityguy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:53 pm

I think if fired laterally it could be a good bear scare also, but I don't know that for a fact as I haven't found any bears who'll cooperate for testing.
And again you better get him in the face or front verses a burning bear-butt..It might be hard to prove you needed it as a "defensive" weapon rather than just you getting your jollies if just his rear is on fire. :roll: . :lol:
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:05 pm

I forgot to mention, in Montana, if you shoot a bear, there had better be evidence the bear had charged and fell dead on top of you. The only realistic chance of killing a grizzly bear is shooting in the spine or brain through it's open mouth. High power rifle cartridges have glanced off their thick sloping skull.

I have heard rangers use "flash bang" devices.

I have not heard that "flash-bang" devices are used, in Montana.

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:16 pm

I have thought to mention Xcaper filters. It may be helpful to your SAR.

As a heart patient, now I cannot be within 1-mile of visible smoke of a forest fire.

One year, we had three forest fires in this area. I was convinced to purchase this device, told the forest fire fighters were purchasing the Xcaper filters for personal use. I was driving back from Kalispell. Someone dropped agent orange on the Essex Fire between the fire and the railroad alongside the highway that drifted over the highway. I immediately ripped open one filter package and held it over my mouth and nose. In spite of a waterfall of tears and burning eyes, I was able to continue to drive until I was out of that area and out of the forest fire smoke. I know it saved my life.

I had already read the instructions.

I couldn't believe I could breathe through that "goo" but I did.

The fact is, I was breathing easily through it, in spite of the initial burning to my lungs, nose and throat.

The fact is, as soon as I no longer needed it, I guess my rational mind told me I could not possibly breathe through "goo" and so I had difficulty breathing through it. I stopped. By then, I was already more than 1-mile away from the smoke of the forest fires.

Well worth the expenditure if there is any chance of fire smoke, because fire smoke is full of nasty particulates and nasty gasses that kill. I paid $4.99 each. I think, by now, the filters are $6.95 each. There is a mask to hold it in place against your face. I didn't have time to put it on.

catspa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:28 pm
Location: upper left corner

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by catspa » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:49 pm

RG, wouldn't it be just like our local bears to turn around and play "victim" just as I fired a flare. "These humans are such suckers when we roar and charge..."

Connie, yes I have used the flare launcher, and it rises about 250 feet (my WAG) fired vertically. The flares burn out before or as they hit the ground most times. A while ago, our sargeant gathered up all our expired flares and took the new members out in a big gravel parking lot to fire them. He notified the dispatch center first and gave the newbs a pair of Nomex gloves to wear in case of hangfires. All but a couple went off, but not all as bright as they should have been.

Anyway, my buddy Larry is saving up for the 25mm launcher, but he'll have to order the flares online and pay a hazmat fee, cause local stores don't stock them.

Parker

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:07 am

I would try a store at a Marina, for those launchers.

I would not use those launchers, unless it was an expensive parachute flare, because of the chance of starting a forest fire. I prefer "orange smoke". It is highly visible.

Actually, it is well documented that grizzly bears do "bluff" charges.

If a grizzly bear is within 30 yards, you are "at risk" however because a human cannot outrun a grizzly bear within 30-yards distance. However, I would not want to find out.

The "bouncing" behaviour is an indication of a "bluff charge". However, I would not want to find out.

I understand "clacking" the molars is right before an authentic charge. However, I would not want to find out.

My "strategy" is to talk, and sing, while hiking on the trail. I do not look straight at a bear, repeatedly averting my eyes, but keeping track of the location and movements and "attitude" of the bear. I do not get between a mother and her cubs, which can be two or three years old. I avoid confrontation, rather, returning back down the trail. If asked, I say, I made an out-and-back hike, no overnight.

I have heard this defense: curling up and in the final moment, turning and spraying the grizzly bear in the face with Counter Assault http://counterassault.com/ bear spray has been a successful defense.

Counter Assault bear spray is approved for Glacier National Park and Waterton (International Peace Park). I have crossed the U.S. Canada border, disclosing I had that spray and I was allowed to enter Canada to go up to Waterton, Alberta with it in my possession. You are required to disclose that you have Counter Assault bear spray. It is a 10.2 oz canister.

(When I was visiting a remote campground with a "bear problem", in Canada, the "campground host" asked me to walk up the road to bring back some curious tourists. I pulled the "safety" off the Counter Assault bear spray. I did bring the tourists back to the campground HQ.)

I never had it in my vehicle when I went up to Carway, Leithbridge, or Calgary, Alberta. I never asked.

catspa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:28 pm
Location: upper left corner

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by catspa » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:16 am

Thanks for mentioning the Xcaper filters, I'll check them out.

As a kid growing up in Alaska, my dad and I used to follow brown bears around and watch them (from a respectful distance, of course). We observed them fishing, playing, tearing logs apart for bugs, wallowing out beds in the sedge grass... We never hunted them, but came prepared for the (unlikely) possibility of attack with an old Win M12 loaded with slugs. We never had to use it, because we used our common sense instead and didn't intrude into bear activities.

Now I live in coastal WA, and we have black bears. When I see one, I often stop and watch it for a while, especially during blackberry/huckleberry season. I no longer carry the M12, but I am armed. I still use my common sense and don't intrude into bear activities.

I think you and I have both known people who get so awestruck being out in nature that they fail to keep an eye out for the danger that nature contains. Some, like Tim Treadwell, don't get the chance to self-correct.

Parker

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:22 am

+1

It is better not to interfere with their behaviour, "their going about their day".

I got that advice, kayaking, on the coast at Tomales Bay, California regarding seals and shore birds.

It is good advice.

User avatar
zelph
Posts: 15834
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by zelph » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:35 am

I'll be going in snake territory this spring. I have a profound hearing disability and won't be able to hear the snakes rattle. Is there any kind of hover shoes available to lift me out of range :roll:

I know!!!! stilts.................the kind drywallers use :mrgreen:

I will be buying snake proof gaiters ;) My adrenalin is beginning to rush just thinking about an encounter/bite 8-)
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

realityguy
Posts: 5948
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:20 am
Location: slightly north of Seattle,WA

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by realityguy » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:44 pm

Tin snake-proof chaps(I once found/ebayed a pair of those. :roll: :lol: )..hopefully you won't run into a tall one.. :o
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: wilderness survival/outdoor first aid

Post by ConnieD » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:31 pm

Filsons:
Are your Tin Chaps snake-proof?
Although Oil Finish Tin Cloth is very abrasion resistant, our Tin Chaps are not snake-proof. We cannot guarantee that our chaps will stop the bite of a snake. Most snake-proof chaps offered by other brands use some kind of technology to guarantee that a snake bit cannot penetrate the material. Our chaps are strictly waxed cotton.
Here are some ideas:

"snake boots" are knee high and higher boots.

http://www.snakeboots.com/
http://www.chippewaboots.com/category/snake_boots

"snake chaps" or "snakeproof gaiters"

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... IMBEPMCMAE
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Clothing ... /N-1101051
http://www.wholesalehuntingequipment.co ... short.html - BEST PRICE

It is not only mesquite brush, this is why cowboys wear chaps and tall cowboy boots.

A stick with a forked branch, cut off to a small "fork" can be used to "pin" a snake down or deflect a snake strike if you are as fast as a snake (not likely). That said, I carried a "snake stick" walking on the ridge in Rattlesnake Canyon, North of Missoula, MT.

I remembered dad said to make lots of noise when walking in snake country by walking on the rocks, which makes a lot of vibrational noise, rather than stepping over the rocks. I actually saw snakes scurry off the "trail" ahead.

Do not count on a rattlesnake "rattling" before a strike. That is TV.

Do not "elevate" the bite. Keep it lower than the heart. Get to anti-venom. Do not run. Get carried, quietly as possible. Keep quiet.

Some say the Sawyer Extractor is worth it. Others say no.

I was taught "snake shot" is worth it.

I think the .22 CCI "snake shot" is worthless, .357 "snake shot" is the minimum, for distance. Make practice shots against cardboard to see how it works.

Ride in a car. Watch where you step. Shake out your boots. Shake out your bedding. Sleep off the ground. There are backpacking "cots". Do not reach in holes or crevices. If you are riding a horse and your horse doesn't want to go that way, don't go that way. Ask for local information.

Better yet, don't go at all: we have a lot of rattlesnakes at "The Knees". I don't go there.

I would rather hike and camp in "the high-country". If low, I pitch a tent in a campground but I sleep in the car.

Snake bite is one reason why hunters have RV's and "hunter's trailers".

Post Reply