Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

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cadyak
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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by cadyak » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:23 am

I like the wick in the cobalt stoves. The wick makes it easy to use a bic.
For all other alcohol stoves I use a firesteel. It is possible to drop a spark into a stove from 6"-12" away everytime. Bic lighters make a good backup.

realityguy
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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by realityguy » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:24 am

The white box stove comes with instructions in an email and a hard copy... from his ebay ads(do you require a link?)..if one doesn't adhere to those instructions..well..that's a person's own fault.That's the case with any homemade stove out there..or ones put out by any manufacturer..not just the WBS.
#1..any stove with holes around the outside and nothing but liquid fuel by itself inside that is tilted for lighting..can create the same problem..common sense.Some people just don't carry that gene..I guess..and should be warned against even breathing on everything they own.
I'm not defending the WBS..just every other stovemaker out there.There are inherent dangers with ALL of them.If you diddle with them long enough you'll find faults with ALL of them.Hidden flames you can't see in sunlight is a danger..should all people be warned about that?Most stovemakers probably include that in their "instructions" for new people to the alcohol-burning world.
I look at his video as just another "instructional" one for the "Stove world of U-tube"...I'm sure there are a ton of other ones on there,if you want to waste your tiem and look hard enough.
I have spilled fuel in testing..I have created fireballs..but I didn't stick them up on u-tube as a warning against using the stove design someone made.I didn't use common sense..There was no reason to bring that up to the public with a warning against using that stove.However..on the other side of the coin and the animosity between stove builders..think how many u-tube hits he'll get! :lol:
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

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zelph
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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by zelph » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:49 pm

It's good to let folks know that accidents do happen and it's prudent to be very careful when doing stove stuff.

I have read many a thread where folks want the Boy Scouts Of America to allow making and using pop can stoves. I say no to that.

I say yes to dads and moms that want to teach their kids at home how to make and use them.

There are folks out there that let known their mishaps:

zelph
Exploding Stoves Etc.Over the last 6 months or so I have come across some statements on different forums concerning homemade stoves blowing up and some overflowing into a ball of flames.
I had a home made pressurized one blow up because I forgot to put the fuel port screw back in. Only had 1/2 ounce of fuel in it to do a test, blew the top half off, it went straight up into the rafters of my garage The little bit of alcohol was blown out for about a 5 foot radius, some small patches of fire here and there, 2 or 3 on the front of my chest the size of quarters, they quickly extinguished. I was not hurt luckily I walked away shaken but not detered. I also had a small prototype T candle side burner blow up in my kitchen because holes were too large.

I’d like all of you to post your experiences in regards to stove blowup or fuel overflowing in a ball of flame because of over filling the stove.

I hope this thread sheds some light on how we need to be more aware of stove safety on and off the trails.

Most recently in this forum Jazilla inquired : Any one have a problem with small explosions with the penny stove. I had the al bottle penny stove pop twice and I had my Sunkist penny pop on first use. Wondering what would cause this problem or is it just the operator.

I actually had the burner pop out when I first lit my Sunkist penny. It Blows up kind of when I first light the primer in the top of the burner with the penny in place

I had 3 stoves pop like this on the first test. After that they pop no more. When I say pop I mean hop up like a small explosion. The first time this happened to me it blew the burner out of the cup.

ppereira007 wrote:
My first homemade stoves were photons. When you forget to put the filler screw back in, they "POP" when you light them. Happened to me twice, both times when too tired to think straight!

Spock wrote:
Yep, I had a penny stove pop and spray flaming alcohol around the kitchen. Melted the front of my microwave. Unfun. The reason was the holes were too large and the flame was able to ignite the air/fuel mixture remaining in the stove. Smaller holes fixed it.

Knightwalker (WB)
Build a Photon and light it with the screw out of the fill hole. You'll get yer explosion. They pop really good with alcohol when missing the fill screw. Gas oughtta be a real hoot.
Use a VERY long lighter!

Tinney(MBD)
The latest test is up on my adventure site which is a daily blog of my life at ww.minibulldesign.com ---The squirting fuel was caused by a gross over fueling of the SST to the point that there was no room for gas to build up so it pushed out solid fuel.

Tinney(MBD)
Bug bags--Catchup and Exploding stoves
I had an email from a customer who says his TREK exploded and set him on fire. I think he may have filled it to the brim with fuel and then got in real close and lit it.


Salvelinus(HHQ)
Yep, I've had it happen, too. On a pressurized model that wasn't epoxied, I stupidly forgot to replace the screw on the fill port--realized it as soon as I lit it, and just had time to get my hand back when the top of the burner popped off of the bottom. Fortunately I was setup on a fire-resistant surface so I just let the flames burn out.
Gotta be careful with those things, but they sure are fun to play with!

Fireboy(WB) I had one blow up also, left the screw out of the fill hole. Also had one that the fuel expanded while the stove heated up and overflowed into a ball of fire. These little things can be hazardous to your health and equipment. Be cautious

Patrick(WB)
That's interesting. The stove that blew up on me was a wedding tin with only a very small hole in the top.
It's the very small hole. Same with the un-closed Photon. Huge, fast vapor pressure spike. BOOM!

Patrick: (WB)
I had an alcohol one blow up once, so I figured this was a lock. I feel like I really let the team down.


Tinney(MBD)
I probably play with more stoves on a daily basis than the average person. I do a test burn on every new design and also on a few every day just to check my work. After being burned several times ,once quite badly. I now wear a thin pair of leather gloves that weigh almost nothing and are worth their weight in gold. you can also use them for any project that may damage your hands. I would highly recommend that anybody using any backpacking stove wear a pair of gloves. A burn on your hand can really mess up your trip and even cut it short if it is bad enough. Why take a chance. I don't anymore!!! Next time you burn yourself on a stove give this a thought.

06-13-2006, 23:01Skidsteer
Congratulations. You've 'seen the elephant'.

Assume a proud place among other Stovies. :D
06-14-2006, 08:04SGT Rock
That is one reason I prefer low pressure stoves.
06-14-2006, 08:54saimyoji
Occaisionally I'd get a POP sound when I first lit the primer pan, but solved this by sticking a piece of Al foil under the can to prop it up.
06-14-2006, 12:36Tha Wookie
I've heard sme stories about whisperlites blowing up, and other commercial stoves, but this is a first for homemade ones...

sounds like your references above are all from one stove type. It's hard to fudge a basic pepsi can stove.

Interesting first post.... you don't work for a backpacking mag or stove company do you?
06-14-2006, 17:37Erro
My Sgt. Rock version stove has never popped. My penny stove has popped twice - both times were when I re-filled and lit the stove while it was hot. Nothing flew into the rafters mind you - the penny just flew up a few inches and a few spots of burning alcohal were spatered around...

-Erro
06-14-2006, 22:36zelph
open flame stoves need care alsomn Backpacker(PBP) wrote this:
My whisperlite, on the other hand, almost removed my eyebrows multiple times before I learned the beauty of alcohol

Big Load (PBP) wrote this :
No explosions, but I have had the misfortune to overturn a lit alcohol stove. My response was a little slow because I was transfixed by the beauty of the spreading blue flame, but no harm was done.
While I agree that white gas stoves aren't risk-free, they aren't quite as prone to this sort of mishap. Even so, I find that the benefits of using an alcohol stove outweigh the risks.

I made a couple of Super Cat stoves , followed directions to the letter, observed the warnings that went with it. One of the warnings was that the stove can stick to the bottom of your pot if it is a little dirty. It did exactly like it had said. I had prepared for it by having stove in the middle of a large 2 foot by three foot commercial oven tray(heavy aluminum). I lifted the pot of boiling water to remove it from the stove and sure enough it stuck to the pot and within a few seconds it released and fell about a foot and a half to the tray, splashing burning fuel into the tray. Had I not read the instructions and not been prepared, I'd have been in a world of hurt or somthin:D . Because of the possibility of this happening on the trail when least expected I opted not to persue this style as my stove of choice. The stove also has a tendency to have alcohol condense on the bottom of the pot and when lifted off the stove the bottom of the pot is onfire. This surely would startle the livin daylights out of you, maybe even cause you to drop your precious 2 cups of dinner water. :eek:

This is what Jim Wood says(designer of the Super Cat)
If the bottom of your pot or the top rim of the stove becomes gummy with cooking residues, the stove could (because it’s so lightweight) actually stick to the pot bottom. When you then lift the pot, the stove could lift along with it. A moment later, it could also “un-stick” and fall, spilling flaming alcohol everywhere. To avoid this problem, always keep the pot bottom and top stove rim free of sticky substances.

Tha Wookie--- No I don't work for a backpacking magazine or stove manufacture. I'm just a plain ole 'STOVIE' born on the HHQ Campfire:D .

I'm like Sgt Rock, I now prefer open flame stoves.

If any of you see a post thats related to this topic please copy it and post it here so we can have this thread as a reminder of stove safety:)

Thank You
Zelph
06-14-2006, 22:47Skidsteer
Duh huh. Now I know who you you are. Guess you got a big grin from the 'seen the elephant' remark. :D
06-15-2006, 10:38Doctari
Wow, scary stuff.

I have made quite a few "high pressure" alcohol stoves, have never had any of them: pop, explode or whatever. Am I just lucky, or are my stoves just made with incredable care & precision :p

Doctari.
06-15-2006, 11:33Seeker
i've made just one that was pressurized. it worked as planned, but it used too much fuel, so i quit while i was ahead and still had all my limbs and fingers. i went back to the standard pepsi can stove for awhile. now i use Rock's Ion stove. slow, but efficient, light, reliable, and safe.

i think the whole pressurized thing is mostly about trying to get alcohol to cook something as fast as a white gas stove. i'm not in that big a hurry in the woods.
06-15-2006, 11:34jlb2012
Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doctari
Wow, scary stuff.

I have made quite a few "high pressure" alcohol stoves, have never had any of them: pop, explode or whatever. Am I just lucky, or are my stoves just made with incredable care & precision :p

Doctari.

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either that or you are just not pushing the envelope far enough - ex try getting a clean burning isopro alcohol stove - this was the one that made me give up on the high pressure stoves (yes it is possible to get a nice blue flame out of isopro - it just takes a rather high pressure stove and small jets)
06-15-2006, 18:27jazilla
Wow a thread I started was kind of responsible to start all this. Any one know the efficiency difference between Low pressure and High pressure stoves. Thanks zelph, its alway nice to know a voice in the dark is heard. Any one see my melted penny pictures?
06-15-2006, 19:29zelph
Skidsteer---- That elephant was the first thing I thought about when I read your post. I'll have to settle for these:D .

Doctari----I don't think you're Lucky, I think you must function with incredible care & precision :p

Seeker----How did you only make just one pressurized stove. You are really in control, I'm impressed!!!!

Quote:

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i think the whole pressurized thing is mostly about trying to get alcohol to cook something as fast as a white gas stove. i'm not in that big a hurry in the woods.
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I'm not in a big hurry either when I'm on the trails. I smell the flowers, watch the birds and the bees and try not to step in the dog poop:D (I'll make friends with that one)

I recently did some tests using a whisperlite and a small open flame stove that I designed. Both stoves boiled 8 cups of water in 10 min. Who would a thunk it?

HOI----The use of T candle stoves suits you well, from pressurised to mini open flame, thats quite a change. (and no addiction, I'm impressed again)

Jazzila----I saw your burnt penny, made me take my glasses off and clean them, did'nt help:) Your voice has been heard and acted upon, thanks for inspiring the heads up on stove safety.
06-18-2006, 01:53Seeker
Quote:

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Originally Posted by zelph
Seeker----How did you only make just one pressurized stove. You are really in control, I'm impressed!!!!

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it scared the bejeezus out of my daughter, and i wasn't impressed with it... loud, bright, complicated. it was one of those you epoxied a nut onto the top off, from underneath, under the filler hole, so you could close it off with a short bolt... nice flash/bang/glitz, but not as effecient as the ion.

however, i've made quite a few others... i can stop. really...

(psst. hey, buddy... can i have that can when you're done with it?)
06-19-2006, 14:11zelph
most recent oneThis one comes from HHQ recently.

Posted by Turk - The Canuk

Nah, it wasn't anything too dreadful. Just surprised me. I am sure
a veteran stovie like yourself has experienced the problems with
pressurized stoves when you get a tin can design that allows too
much volume of trapped vapor with too large an orfice. It lit for
about 2 seconds before flashing back into the stove and blowing the JB
welded walls out. Surprised me more than anything. Luckily didn't get
any burning fuel on my new down vest. Was able to put the fire out
quickly enough. Only item I couldnt save in the aftermath was the funnel
which melted, the stove itself, and some burnt paint on the picnic table.
If I had double checked that the filler port cap was tight, could have
avoided the accident. I ended up boiling nearly 2 litres of water on my
vargo stove. Used alot of fuel though. Was hoping to get some
burn test comparisons between the two.
__________________
Turk - The Canuk :D
10-02-2006, 19:07zelph
possible accident ready to happenThought I should add this to the list of stove dangers.

More the reason to switch to non-pressurised alcohol stoves

The wick style being the safest!!!!!!!!

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...53&postcount=1
10-03-2006, 13:11nutlub
Yesterday I filled my SVEA 123 with some white gas for a test run and forgot to screw the stove fuel cap back on. Well as I was priming the stove I thought to myself...

:-? "Hmmm...that looks like a little more flame then normal. Why are there flames comming out the side...Yikes!! the fuel cap is off!!" :eek:

Frantically I blew out all of the flames...Man I was sure that thing was gonna blow but it was snuffed out with no trouble.

Awesome stove imho.
:)
10-03-2006, 22:35jazilla
Skid you seem a little skeptical. Try making a penny stove. Fill it then light it with the penny removed. POP
10-16-2006, 00:02rockrat
I had my MSR Dragonfly flare up once and burn all the hair off my leg. No problems with my alcohol stove, though.
10-16-2006, 02:00Gaiter
my only problems with stoves have been operator error. me being the operator. and the error had nothing to do with the stove blowing up, just being already lit. And no that wasn't a nalgene with water it was my nalgene with alcohol.
ha. ha. I laugh now, but i wasn't laughing when my leg was on fire! I did laugh at myself as soon as my leg was out.
10-16-2006, 11:52The Weasel
Skydiver jumps out of the plane and pulls the ripcord. Damn! Nothing happens! He pulls the cord of his reserve 'chute...damn again! He looks down at the approaching ground and sees a speck ascending towards him. As it gets closer, he sees it's a guy with a typical backpacker, and he yells to him, "Do you know how to fix a broken parachute?" As he goes past, the backpacker yells back, "No! Can you fix an MSR stove?"

The Weasel
10-21-2006, 03:57atraildreamer
Pop...meow-r-r-r!!!...When my pressurized stove blew apart, the top half nearly landed on the cat. I didn't think a 14 year old tabby could still move that fast! :eek:
10-21-2006, 07:35Big Dawg
Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Weasel
Skydiver jumps out of the plane and pulls the ripcord. Damn! Nothing happens! He pulls the cord of his reserve 'chute...damn again! He looks down at the approaching ground and sees a speck ascending towards him. As it gets closer, he sees it's a guy with a typical backpacker, and he yells to him, "Do you know how to fix a broken parachute?" As he goes past, the backpacker yells back, "No! Can you fix an MSR stove?"

The Weasel

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Excellent!!!!! LOL!!!!
11-09-2006, 23:47zelph
happens to the best of usthis is a classic!!!!!!!! This is all that remains of Hanna's little accident.
Friday, June 23, 2006

This belongs with the etc. part of this thread.
11-09-2006, 23:59LostInSpace
I 'spose a stove is the wrong way to warm a container of hooch. :D
11-10-2006, 03:43Gaiter
Quote:

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Originally Posted by zelph
this is a classic!!!!!!!! This is all that remains of Hanna's little accident.
Friday, June 23, 2006

This belongs with the etc. part of this thread.

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LOL yep i did that!!! except mine didn't involve an exploding stove, it involved me pouring alcohol, thinking it was water, over an already lit stove. Great way to get rid of leg hair for a while, and i hope the church group that was at that shelter that night wasn't too offended by my choice of words.
11-10-2006, 03:47Two Speed
Quote:

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. . . i hope the church group that was at that shelter that night wasn't too offended by my choice of words.
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Given the fancy footwork that usually accompanies such "colorful" incidents I'm sure they thought it was part of the floor show. Don't sweat it.
11-10-2006, 03:57Gaiter
lil'red kept on telling me to drop and roll, but given that it was mostly on the inside of my leg, i was afraid if i did that, it would have gotten on both legs. so i kept on dancing until it i got it out.

I really need to sleep now, nighty night!
11-13-2006, 23:14smirkinman
Why they popRegarding the pops reported using some alcohol stoves, I understand the problem is alowing air and/or the flame front to migrate into the confined space of the stove. I remember a safety film I saw once where a metal gas can was fitted with a metal spout that had a stainless steel screen over it. They lit the spout and had a nice little flame but no big boom. I think there may have been an example of what happens without the screen, but I can't be sure.

On the stoves, notice that all the pops and outright explosions are reported when using a stove with a hole that has a large-ish diameter. The penny stove instructions I read said that if you drill three to six 1/16 inch holes in the center rather than one 1/4 in hole, you will reduce/prevent the explosions.

It seems to me that there will be air and alcohol inside the stove from time to time. The trick is to keep the fire from getting in there with it. (Of course) and small holes seem to do that. Anyone have an explanation as to why a screen keeps the fire out?
11-13-2006, 23:24smirkinman
Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seeker
i think the whole pressurized thing is mostly about trying to get alcohol to cook something as fast as a white gas stove. i'm not in that big a hurry in the woods.

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Actually, it's not all about hurry. The challenge is to put the heat into your supper faster than the surrounding environment sucks it back out. Once stated in that way, you can see there are more than one approach that will improve your results - reduce the rate of heat loss, or increase the rate of heat gain. Or both. For my money, the challenge is to boil my water with as little fuel as possible, so I can carry less fuel. Too cool a burn and you have to burn longer to get temp if you even make it. Which means more fuel. Too hot a burn and the heat goes around the pot and never makes it into the water. Which means more fuel. So one has to match ones pot, stove, stand, screen etc. to one another. It's a system, and the parts gotta get along. That's why a lid helps so much, and also why JetBoil has a built in cozy.
11-13-2006, 23:36Skidsteer
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by smirkinman
...So one has to match ones pot, stove, stand, screen etc. to one another. It's a system, and the parts gotta get along....

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So what's your system? Lay it out for me. Got pics?

I'm sincerely interested.
11-14-2006, 12:36zelph
If i lay a fine stainless steel screen over the top of a StarLyte burner it won't lite. The screen does not allow oxygen into the gas can just as small holes in the Penny stove. I think some have experience small audio pops when the metal heats and expands, mostly the bottom of the can is under tension due to manufacturing of the can. The initial heating of the can eliminates the tension with an audible "pop" I think there were a couple of posts saying that it (pop) and movement of only occured once.
01-25-2007, 18:48zelph
what happen tohttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...5&postcount=28



Quote:

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ontheroad2long
hi there what do u guy do with all they stove i try too make one and all most burn my pack my test and house if any got a free or cheep om let me know please

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Wonder whatever happen to this guy, maybe he tried to make another stove and something went wrong. This is just an update and reminder to be careful when playing with fire and building stoves.

Anyone heard of any misshaps lately?
01-25-2007, 20:26atraildreamer
O-o-o-p-s...Had a pressurized stove blow apart in the kitchen sink during a test. The flame blew out as the top half of the stove went straight up, bounced off the ceiling and nearly landed on the cat, scaring the crap out of the both of us! :eek:

(You should have seen the old girl move! :jump)
01-25-2007, 20:46Jim Adams
and you all still insist on using them?!!!!!!!!!!
get light weight and go cannister!
geek
01-25-2007, 20:52Jack Tarlin
I agree that most stove blow-ups or meltdowns can be attributed to pilot error, or more likely, one moment of in-attention or carelessness.

A favorite memory: Back around the year 2000, I saw this guy cooking dinner on top of Springer Mountain; he had an obviously brand-new Whisperlite. As I watched him, he must have pumped the thing around 45 times, basically till he couldn't pump it any more.

I VERY politely tried to intervene by telling him it was probably sufficiently pressurized. His reply was something like: "I understand you've hiked this Trail before, but you're not the only one out here with experience in the woods. If I need your help with anything I'll ask for it."

I smiled, and said "Sure!" and then backed up around 15 feet.

He over-primed the stove, flicked a lighter, and the flame that shot up almost took off his eyebrows. His hair wasn't quite on fire, but it was real close.

His stove was basically destroyed; the entire pump fixture was a melted glob of red plastic.

I quickly determined that other than the singed hair he was OK, and happily was uninjured.

I then told him that in future, I would certainly defer to his previous knowledge and experience and if I ever saw him do something similarly stupid, I'd be sure to say nothing.

And with that, I said "Have a good dinner!" and headed towards my tent.

Most stove accidents are NOT the fault of the stove.
01-25-2007, 22:34sweetpeastu
I have one of those Whisperlite things. I'm half scared of it everytime I use it....it seems tempermental. I get visions in my head of fireballs and exploding fuel canisters. I think campfires are safter--unless there's a burn ban.
01-25-2007, 22:44Jack Tarlin
Not to worry! I had a Whisperlite Internationale for years, in fact I still have it stored away somewhere.

It's got close to 10,000 miles on it, and who knows how many meals.

If properly used, maintained, and cared for, you have nothing to fear from an MSR stove.

They make great stuff.
01-25-2007, 23:10terrapin_too
Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin
If properly used, maintained, and cared for, you have nothing to fear from an MSR stove.

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I hate having to agree with JT about anything, but it needs to be noted, on this one instance. I feel pretty much the same way about my Whisperlite stove, and it's about as old as Jack's. The Whisperlite has earned its place in thru-hikin' history, along with the Svea and the Coleman Peak-1. ;)
01-26-2007, 01:05sweetpeastu
thats the catch though, "if used properly and properly maintained" lol. Any advice for me on the proper maintenance....and um well the use is done by instinct soooo....any tips there are welcome too!
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realityguy
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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by realityguy » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:06 pm

Most stove accidents are NOT the fault of the stove.
No more comment needed than that..
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

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ConnieD
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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by ConnieD » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:48 pm

I can't help it. If "feels" like déjà vu.

In some ways, I feel I am looking at yet another Tinny video blaming the customer.

I stopped looking at video's by Tinny.

I think webelos and cub scouts should build a bird house, getting it all just right so a bird family sets up housekeeping, and, assemble a crystal radio set to see the wonder of it all. Then, after those experiences of seeing a project through, only then, they can build a wood fire in campcraft, and that, supervised by an adult who knows what they are doing.

If the ScoutMaster has no experience, then, they should bring in experienced guest-instructors to help the kids through that part of their merit badge.

I have met people, who can see a project through, and, have had "mentoring".

They are the most accomplished and competant people to employ, or end up employing others.

The ones, I wouldn't entrust with a job, are the "competitive-edge" "ego-centric" jocks or geeks, for that matter, who are reckless and never see a task through to completion, or, claim that "just screwing around" is science. The military loves those guys because they "take orders" and all the while think they are the quarterback on a playing field. Their mom and dad or siblings or "school chums" were screaming at these kids, from the sidelines, in Little League baseball, football, or at any "competitive sport".

I don't see stove-building as a "competition".

It is a project the stove-builder has to assemble with precision and see through to completion and have it all function as intended, just like a successful bird-house or a crystal radio set that works properly.

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zelph
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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by zelph » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:18 pm

I have spilled fuel in testing..I have created fireballs..but I didn't stick them up on u-tube as a warning against using the stove design someone made.I didn't use common sense..There was no reason to bring that up to the public with a warning against using that stove.However..on the other side of the coin and the animosity between stove builders..think how many u-tube hits he'll get!
Warnings are helpful. Tinny was warned/advised of the problem causing pressure build up in his "bios" stove. If he was not given public warning he would have continued to tell everyone that it was "bad fuel" causing the problem. His "Bios" is a classic example of "The Stove" being the problem. Bill Ballow, Sgt. Rock used the same reasoning when people had problems with their stoves. Bill Ballow = White Box Stove and Sgt. Rock = The "Ion"
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by realityguy » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:48 pm

Personally..I think his U-tube title should have been:Heads up Alcohol Stove Owners!it isn't just the WBS..about 80%+ have the same problem anytime you can spill/slosh fuel all over the place by tipping them,dropping them,knocking them over..whatever...and then try and light it? :roll: :lol:
My stoves I use are only wicked ones for that reason.I OVERFILL ALL THE TIME.I want my stove to just keep burning so I don't have to wait for it to cool,refuel,and start over.I let it burn..I'm not a fuel miser..why the wicked ones are best for my purpose..besides being able to simmer without extra parts.
I FILL my stove's until the wicking looks wet,fire it up and let it burn,leventually I even get a pot on it :lol: ..no muss,no fuss..no measuring..no having to carry extra parts as far as filling cups,simmer rings,etc.The stove does it all..and auto shifts to simmer.it may weigh a whopping 2oz..but I can handle all that extra weight. :roll:
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

oops56
Posts: 1920
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:31 am

Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by oops56 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:54 am

realityguy wrote:Personally..I think his U-tube title should have been:Heads up Alcohol Stove Owners!it isn't just the WBS..about 80%+ have the same problem anytime you can spill/slosh fuel all over the place by tipping them,dropping them,knocking them over..whatever...and then try and light it? :roll: :lol:
My stoves I use are only wicked ones for that reason.I OVERFILL ALL THE TIME.I want my stove to just keep burning so I don't have to wait for it to cool,refuel,and start over.I let it burn..I'm not a fuel miser..why the wicked ones are best for my purpose..besides being able to simmer without extra parts.
I FILL my stove's until the wicking looks wet,fire it up and let it burn,leventually I even get a pot on it :lol: ..no muss,no fuss..no measuring..no having to carry extra parts as far as filling cups,simmer rings,etc.The stove does it all..and auto shifts to simmer.it may weigh a whopping 2oz..but I can handle all that extra weight. :roll:
i like my wick stoves too if it holds a 1/ 2 oz. or 3/4 oz and it do the job no need for a measuring cup just fill till wet then walk a way let it do its job
Man play with fire man get burnt

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zelph
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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by zelph » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:37 am

Old Coot

whisperlight failuresI own, and have owned, for more than a few years, with no problems, a very dependable whisperlight internationale. That being said, there are two very rare failure points on the whisperlights. If the stove is more than a year or so old and has the second generation pump on it, it can fail at the point where the pump handle fastens into the rest of the pump. Fatigue and/or over zealous pumping causes the plastic "nubs" that retain the handle to break. (those little things you have to do the quarter turn to disengage if the leather cup needs oiling). Not a terrible problem if the check valve is in good working order, otherwise the handle comes out gas leaks and uh! oh! The worse of the two problems is again a fatigue and/or over zealous pumping problem, the pump at the point it screws into the bottle next to the o-ring will crack/break giving the o-ring nothing to push against. This allows gas to leak rather rapidly with spectacular results. I suspect this is what Jack witnessed. MSR has dealt with both these problems on their new pumps by using a fuller/beefier rubber piece next to the bottle and a design that does away with the weak "nubs" on the handle end. Just inspect the pump every now and then and don't try to get a 100 PSI into the bottle with it and you got nothing to worry about.
01-30-2007, 00:40sweetpeastu
so how many times are u supposed to pump it...safetly? (I think mine is the newer kind with the beefier rubber piece)
01-30-2007, 06:38oldcoot
proper number of pumpsShort answer, who knows? Long answer, it depends on bottle size, how full the bottle is, and to some extent outdoor temps (my opinion only on this one). The bigger the bottle the bigger the air space in it if it is filled to the correct line on the side, and the emptier the bottle the bigger the air space. The bigger the air space the more pumps it takes to compress the air inside to a given pressure. In the end sometimes less is more, I find I can get the whisperlights to do a fair job of simmering if I keep the pressure on the low side. A weak yellow flame, pump some more, a nice blue hissing flame OK no more pumping, a big tall yellow flame, see above posting and run like hell. Light it up, experiment, have some fun, if they were really dangerous they wouldn't be able to sell them now would they?
01-30-2007, 07:23oldfivetango
I put my beautiful brass SVEA 123R aside for alcohol
only because of the weight and partly because I felt
a little uneasy with the pyrotechnics involved with
starting it.Plus,although it is simple in its design it is
still a mechanical device and, as such, is not immune to
failure.Alcohol,being so much lighter and simpler is my
current choice but requires a little more systems management
in its use.The size of the pot and the fit of the windscreen etc
are all an intergral part of the mix as someone stated earlier.
I took some advice from SGT Rock awhile back and made a simple
burner out of a can of Frito Lay Bean Dip.In a matter of minutes I
punched holes with a push pin,sat the stove in a small primer pan
left over from a worthless (imho) stove I had purchased and was
cooking in short order.Maybe I should say boiling in short order instead
of cooking.For cooking I use the Brasslite Turbo 2D and it is a Champion
of a stove from my perspective.I do not use the base reflector that I
sometimes see others using since I am using my little primer pan on
BOTH stoves.The little primer pan add a great deal of stability to either
setup and makes lighting the stove real easy and more than a little
safer as one doesnt necessarily have to hunker down over the stove to
light it.So the question is-what is that reflector ring actully do?When I
tried it all I got was a fuel flash so I discontinued its use.
Thanks,
Oldfivetango
02-04-2007, 20:09zelph
Quote:

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--1996--
Join Date: 03-13-2004
Location: North, Georgia
Year of thru-hiked: 1996
Posts: 1,633

When I thru hiked in 96 a lot of the hikers using various alcohol stoves had trouble boiling water in the cold windy environment along with the near freezing creek water. One of the guys even got burned pretty bad using a less than sturdy homemade one.
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Came across the above info posted by Ridge not to long ago. Just a reminder to be careful.
02-05-2007, 08:30Peaks
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by oldcoot
I own, and have owned, for more than a few years, with no problems, a very dependable whisperlight internationale. That being said, there are two very rare failure points on the whisperlights. If the stove is more than a year or so old and has the second generation pump on it, it can fail at the point where the pump handle fastens into the rest of the pump. Fatigue and/or over zealous pumping causes the plastic "nubs" that retain the handle to break. (those little things you have to do the quarter turn to disengage if the leather cup needs oiling). Not a terrible problem if the check valve is in good working order, otherwise the handle comes out gas leaks and uh! oh! The worse of the two problems is again a fatigue and/or over zealous pumping problem, the pump at the point it screws into the bottle next to the o-ring will crack/break giving the o-ring nothing to push against. This allows gas to leak rather rapidly with spectacular results. I suspect this is what Jack witnessed. MSR has dealt with both these problems on their new pumps by using a fuller/beefier rubber piece next to the bottle and a design that does away with the weak "nubs" on the handle end. Just inspect the pump every now and then and don't try to get a 100 PSI into the bottle with it and you got nothing to worry about.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, I've had those problems with the MSR pump. However, thanks to the liberal exchange policy at EMS and REI, I have exchanged them for the new pump at no cost.
02-26-2007, 12:21atraildreamer
Origin?Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin
He over-primed the stove, flicked a lighter, and the flame that shot up almost took off his eyebrows. His hair wasn't quite on fire, but it was real close.

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Is this how a mountain top becomes a "bald"? :-?
03-19-2007, 16:00zelph
comes under etc.This is just a reminder to be careful when experimenting at home in the kitchen. Don't mix fuels and firestarting products. Notice that gun powder was mixed in with shavings, oh my!!!!!


Quote:

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03-14-2007, 16:30
No Belay
Savoring Happy!
Magnesium Fire Maelstrom
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Was on Whee-bay a couple of weeks ago and saw a listing for magnesium shavings to use as fire starters. Thought "this has got to be cool" and bought a pound. I was expecting a sandwich bag full but when it got here, I was surprised to see it was a gallon zip-lock full of saw shavings and little fuzzy balls coated in gun powder. Thought "this really is cool."
My girlfriend was using the stove so I couldn't try it under the exhaust fan where I usually do my Alky stove training. Instead I got a coffee can, bad choice, turned it over, and poured about a tablespoon of the shavings over one of the fuzzy balls that I set on the bottom of the inverted can. Expecting a nice subtle tinder drying type fire, I struck a match to the fuzzy ball. It initially just kind of smoldered but then a small shaving of the magnesium ignited and that's the last thing I remember seeing before the big flash. Have you ever heard 6 smoke alarms going off at the same time?
Anywho, as my vision began to come back, I was pleased to see there was very little flame left on the top of the coffee can, just allot of smoke. Then I realized the magnesium had burned through the can and was now devouring the top of my kitchen island cabinet. Being a cool headed experimenter, I grabbed an oven mitt and the turkey roaster pan. In total control, I knocked the can off onto the floor and as I wiped the burning magnesium off the counter and towards the roaster pan, there was another blinding flash. Kinda looked like the 4th of July, New Years Eve in New York, and Hiroshima all rolled into one. Thank God, somewhere between the counter top and the pan, the remaining metal from hell had ignited and disappeared. All that remained were little black shards stuck in my forehead, arms, and stomach. The underarmor T I was wearing had been reduced to a Richard Simons look alike. Didn't get lucky that night...in fact didn't even get dinner.


http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...51&postcount=1
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03-31-2007, 09:55zelph
pop can stovesI think this one is worthy of this thread:

Quote:

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IdahoDavid
Rather than creating a smaller hole, I have punched four 1/8 inch holes in the center for fill. The only problme I had was when I got impatient and refilled the stove before it had cooled completely so I had premature faborization and it blew up inside the chamber when I tried to light it. Very exciting. :eek:
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His post can be viewed here (pepsi can cut out size)

Hole size in pop can stoves can be important!!!!
03-31-2007, 13:56Bohican
2 Attachment(s)This isn't about problems with MYOG stoves, but what can happen when "improvements" are made to a production stove.

I got a really good deal on a Vargo Titanium, but I'm using a Heinie Keg as a pot. The problem is the pot stand portion is too small for the keg. I decided to use another Heinie can as a combination windscreen/ pot holder.

Attachment 1652

It was a little too efficient at keeping the heat under the pot, and caused the alcohol to vaporize at an alarming rate.

Attachment 1653

Luckily, wasted fuel was the only bad thing that happened. I've since made a better adapter for the Heinie with this stove, but I ran across the idea of using a bottle cap and some fuel to "prime" the stove. So, I filled the bottle cap with fuel, placed it under the full stove, lit the alcohol in the cap, set the stove on the flaming cap, and within 10 seconds had the vargo erupting balls flame all over the electric range it was set on. No pics, as I was in a hurry to dig out a stock pot to smother the blaze before I lit my apartment complex on fire. I now test "improvements" to my stove outdoors.

I now seem to recall that little bit of advice being included in the vargo instructions (ETA: The Outside part). :o
03-31-2007, 15:02rjprince
Pretty sure there is no way to make the FireLightStove blow up. I have burned all kinds of fuel in it and have melted a few, white gas, naptha, diesel, kerosene. THESE ARE NOT APPROVED FUELS FOR THE FIRELIGHT, just some things I tried on a crazy afternoon. (ONLY USE DENATURED ALCOHOL OR AN EQUIVALENT in the FireLightStove) In any case, with my design there is no way to build up pressure since the inner and outer walls of the burner are touching each other.
03-31-2007, 15:20zelph
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by rjprince
Pretty sure there is no way to make the FireLightStove blow up. I.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somewhere in this thread there is a post saying that your type of burner tipped over and flaming fuel was spilled. It was an open flame type just like yours.

Some stoves are more scary than others. We should be careful with all stoves. Some stoves can tip over and the fuel wont spill out, less scary.

Would you like to add an experience that might be of some value to this thread, something that went wrong during the 5 gallons of fuel that you burned 1/2 ounce at a time. The hundreds of stoves that you made, did any of them fail in any way?

Thank You
03-31-2007, 17:45rjprince
Oh, absolutely. Fire does burn things, no doubt. I do not know of any alcohol stove that will not spill some fuel when turn over while in operation. If the fuel spills, then the fire spreads where the fuel goes. This is true with the Trangia as well. Kinda tend to believe that any liquid fuel stove could have this potential. Have not tried to turn over my white gas stove while in operation, but pretty sure that it would be unpleasant. AND water does not put out a petroleum fire like it DOES a small alcohol fire...

In my instructions, I specifically warn, "If you turn this stove over while in operation, the fire will be out of the stove and onto whatever surface the stove was at the time..."

In another place I warn, "knives and sharp edges can cut... fire burns things". In that sense stoves can be like people. Their greatest strengths can become their greatest weakness, if they are not kept under control...

If a person is a strong leader with a forceful personality, it is potentially a very good thing. If that person uses that strength to dominate and hurt others, it is a bad thing. Strength out of control = weakness.

SO yes, any stove which has the potential to allow the fire to get out of control has a weakness. Ever drop a kitchen towel onto a red hot electric burner? Anything that will cook food has a weakness. Its strength is its ability to generate heat. It weakness is it ability to generate heat. Strength must be kept under control.

Do you agree?
03-31-2007, 17:51rjprince
Some of the stoves burped and sputtered out small droplets of fuel when burning. As long as I was on a non-flamable surface this was OK. Final design does not have this problem and the windscreen/shield would take care of it if it did.

As far as a problem in burning all that fuel (I am on my 8th gallon now), only time was when I got careless and added fuel to a burner that had not gone completely out. The fumes in the plastic bottle ignited and forced burning fuel out with great intensity! Did not burn down the house or damage the stove. Did result in immediate increase in heart rate, blood pressure, and respiration. But for the potential danger, kinda reminded me of the time when I was a kid and accidently dropped a lit match into a coffee can full of firecrackers, only this was much more quiet....

Ray
04-01-2007, 10:18Minot
I just picked up a Vargo and I am very disappointed in it.

It sputters and leaks around the edge. I didn't overfill it but it still burned off the fuel too quickly.

It's a marginal design in my opinion. I know some people have had great times with them, but it's not going in my pack.
04-03-2007, 21:53dla
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Minot
I just picked up a Vargo and I am very disappointed in it.

It sputters and leaks around the edge. I didn't overfill it but it still burned off the fuel too quickly.

It's a marginal design in my opinion. I know some people have had great times with them, but it's not going in my pack.

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Vargo seems to get a lot of negative reviews.
04-06-2007, 11:30Pest
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by dla
Vargo seems to get a lot of negative reviews.

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http://www.backpackgeartest.org/revi...Term%20Report/

Special Note:

Responding to the consistent reports of flare-ups with the Triad, Vargo re-issued the testers replacement stoves. Apparently, there was a defect in the original manufacturing run in which the two stove halves were not properly sealed. This resulted in fuel leakage around the mating seam when the stove heated during the priming cycle. I am pleased to report that the newer model has exhibited none of the tendency to flare that the original did. An additional improvement, at least on the stove I received, is the leg hinges are now stiff enough that the legs remain in place when either open or closed. This makes the stove much easier to handle and pack and seems a bit more stable when cooking. These two changes have raised my opinion of the Triad considerably.
04-24-2007, 06:37Brasslite
Pressurized alcohol stovesAll these stories about pressurized alcohol stoves popping and "exploding" point to the main reason that Brasslite discontinued making pressurized stoves and went to an open container design. If you think a bursting soda can is bad, imagine a brass container soldered shut with high temp solder. Early on I had one of those blow up on me...NOT pretty and very scary.

Anytime the pressure in the stove exceeds the stove's ability to vent the vapor, there is a risk of explosion. This can happen if preheating a stove and too much fuel is used. When lighting a pressurized stove with the cap off, oxygen has gotten inside the container and mixed with the alcohol vapor. A cooling stove that has been extinguished and still has alcohol remaining actually draws air into the container. If you try to light it again, the vapor ignites all at once inside and the resulting force may exceed the load strength of the container.
06-17-2007, 20:27Ridgerunner50
I have never had one of my pressurized alky stove explode BUT....I had a bad finger flaming experience when trying to add more fuel to what I thought was an extinguished soda can stove. We had finished our hike and was spending the last night at Big Creek , in the Smokies, before heading home. My buddy still laughs about the dance I was doing trying to extinguish the fuel bottle and my hand. I also kicked the stove setting my shoe on fire. I had my blistered finger in a cup of ice water all evening. I was forced to consume 4 or 5 Budweisers and take a Vicoden and sleep with my hand slipped through a crack in the tent door and my finger in a cup of ice. By morning, it felt just fine, with no throbbing or tenderness. I learned a BIG lesson on that one. I know, BONEHEAD!!!:p Then when we get back home, my zone manager stops by at work and asks about my vacation and inquires about something to do with a stove and explosion. Apparently, he had stopped at my buddies store and got the whole lowdown on the event. Oh well, I still have all my fingers, toes, and eyebrows.:banana
10-03-2007, 21:32moonpie
I got bit by the DIY bug many years ago...and recently it moved into the hiking/backpacking relm...longer story short....I made a penny stove and have posted my questions about it...today I got a bottle of the yellow HEET. I poured it in and struck the lighter over it..."POOF"...stupid me thought it went out...I went to reprime the stove and yep...you guessed it...it was still lit!!! The fluid got on my left hand and then I was LIT!!!:eek: I've got a few blisters, less hair on my left arm and a good case of "boy that was stupid syndrome".:confused:

Just a note from the new guy...be very careful!!!

For those who realy want to know....the HEET was the trick...it fixed my stove primming problems and worked great...now that the throbbing has left my hand...and my embarrisment is not as obvious...I can admit that it was stupid of me to do that and that I should have put my hand over the stove to feel for heat first...hind sight is 20/20!!!
01-16-2010, 21:49zelph
My first thread on WB, almost 4 years ago, was this one on stove mishaps. Does anyone have anything to add to it just for the fun of it. We could put Dlarsons video in here of the remote fueled stove being tested in his kitchen.

I havn't seen this thread in a long time(2007) so I thought it was time to bump it up:)
01-17-2010, 01:07Desert Reprobate
We need a contest to see whose stove can boil the elephant the fastest.
01-17-2010, 01:14jrwiesz
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Desert Reprobate
We need a contest to see whose stove can boil the elephant the fastest.

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Asian or African?
01-18-2010, 12:19zelph
Here is one that's interesting:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/D43xN5vyXxU/default.jpg

Subscribe
01-18-2010, 13:33Stoviegal
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by zelph
Here is one that's interesting:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/D43xN5vyXxU/default.jpg

Subscribe

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It's reasons like that I keep everything handy to put out a fire as quickly as possible; and also why I prefer low pressure stoves like the Starlyte stove. That was one scary video.
01-18-2010, 13:47Spokes
Imagine if that was inside the vestibule of your tent!
01-18-2010, 14:22Stoviegal
Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spokes
Imagine if that was inside the vestibule of your tent!

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Anyone smart enough to light up one of those stoves inside their tent, well....:rolleyes:
01-18-2010, 14:25Wheeler
I realize that the Esbit is Lighter and smaller,can be used over and over. These things may turn you off, besides, there is no chance of it ever exploding. Yeah, nevermind
01-18-2010, 14:37Stoviegal
Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wheeler
I realize that the Esbit is Lighter and smaller,can be used over and over. These things may turn you off, besides, there is no chance of it ever exploding. Yeah, nevermind

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I'm curious about the Esbit. I think after the thrill of making alcohol stoves wear's off, I may consider using it. I have to read up on it a bit more though, I think I've heard someone mention it doesn't burn so clean. I may have misunderstood. I will look into Esbit a bit more. Right now the alcohol stoves is more about the fun factor. But in the long run, I'll weigh the pluses and minuses of between the types.
01-18-2010, 15:01bullseye
Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stoviegal
I think after the thrill of making alcohol stoves wear's off

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Blasphemy:D!
01-18-2010, 20:00zelph
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by zelph
Here is one that's interesting:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/D43xN5vyXxU/default.jpg

Subscribe

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Keep in mind everyone, minibull sells remote fueled stoves that can cause serious problems in the hands of novice stove users. Plastic tubes dry out due to alcohol and get brittle in cold weather, expand in hot weather and in close quarters with hot stove and trapped heat by the windscreen. Lots of variables to be concerned with.
01-18-2010, 20:13Spokes
Do What?Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by zelph
Keep in mind everyone, minibull sells remote fueled stoves that can cause serious problems in the hands of novice stove users. Plastic tubes dry out due to alcohol and get brittle in cold weather, expand in hot weather and in close quarters with hot stove and trapped heat by the windscreen. Lots of variables to be concerned with.

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Heck, if I wanted a remote fuel stove I'd go back to my old MSR Whisperlite-- NOT!
01-21-2010, 23:26d40mFc
Except that's not a minibull stove.
02-09-2011, 08:20zelph
I bumped this thread up so that scoutmasters and folks with scouts in their families can see some things that can happen with DIY stoves.

It's for those who wonder why rules are made for the scouting programs.

There used to be a youtube video of 4-5 scouts lighting a stove that scared the daylights out of them when it went Kaboooom. Video was removed from you tube.
02-09-2011, 09:34Slo-go'en
Ha, when I saw the exploding stove tag line, I thought it was about the Coleman Peak One stoves. Seen quite a few of those go up in a ball of flame.
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ConnieD
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Re: Heads Up White Box Stove Owners

Post by ConnieD » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:43 am

I had every compenent model stove MSR made up until the "Dragonfly". I had quit, by then.

Every stove did not do what was "advertised" and the plastic pump component FAILS, exposed to fuel.

It is a bad design. There are "plastics" that can withstand fuel but more expensive for MSR.

I was never forceful. Neverthelesee, every MSR component stove plastic pump component one FAILED.

Worse, it was not repairable.

No "self depreciating" end-user has an opinion about the product worth listening to. He shows he is a "slave" to consumerism, that's all.

The presumption the manufacturer must be right, is wrong.

In this instance, was he too forceful? Not unless he breaks all the other stuff he has.

In fact, his evaluation of the gear is limited by his "belief" in MSR.

I purchase other gear from MSR, that is great stuff! I list other MSR gear on my website.

Why? I evaluate the product. It does the job it is for and it is durable.

In my opinion, anything less than that is "fashion". Oh look, I got the latest widget!

Either that, or, in these instances, the manufacturer is having paid-customers do the "protuct testing" for the manufacturer. That is wrong. They are not paid product testers, nor volunteers.

Others you quoted are reckless. Manufacturers do what they can, by providing instructions.

Manufacturers, nevertheless, have to provide a product that will perform with reasonable safety.

The manufacturer has to be able to prove "negligence" of the end-user.

The purchaser does not have to accept either manufacturer negligence or bad design.

Many products are obtained as second-hand. Is the Manual.pdf available online?

Have you noticed how many good products made, no longer sold, after some years, nevertheless, have the Manual.pdf available online?

I buy second-hand, if it makes no sense whatsoever to buy new. The newest product may have so many features I will never use. For example, Blu-Ray. I have seen it. It looks great, but I am very happy with 720 HD. I purchased a video cam for 720 HD. I checked before I purchased. The Manual.pdf was available online.

I exercise "due diligence".

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