NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

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pbft
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby pbft » Thu May 16, 2013 6:27 am

Tell us more about this photo: http://www.nofossil.org/photos/wholetank.jpg


It's a long story - really. Shortest possible version: It's an 880 gallon heat storage tank. When you heat with wood (and solar, to some degree) the heat generation timing and amount doesn't match your needs. Either the house temperature fluctuates a lot or you throttle back the wood fire and it smolders inefficiently. Storage lets you build short hot efficient fires, dump the extra heat into storage, then draw it off as needed.

The tank in the picture has three heat exchanger coils for three different purposes:
  • Transferring heat both ways between the house hydronic heating system
  • Preheating well water on its way to the DHW tank
  • Heating the tank from the solar panels

Ended up that I needed a control system to manage it all, and that became a business. Here's a link to the control panel (live, real-time):
http://www.nofossil.org/gui/extpanel.html

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zelph
Posts: 15822
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby zelph » Thu May 16, 2013 8:05 am

I'm really impressed. 85-160 defree preheat water going into the domestic hot water tank. Coming out of the domestic water heater you can get up to 115 degrees which sounds warm enough to take a shower right? or is that a little chilly :?:

Real time online viewing is so cool! :ugeek: Nice high tech stuff you got going there pbft Now I wish you were around when I had a 350 gallon milk storage tank, dairy farm type. I salvaged it way back when and never utilized it. Sold it 3 years ago :o I had high hopes of doing similar to what you are doing now. Making and designing stoves keeps me busy. Going into the woods keeps me happy :D glad you are here to share your experiences and knowledge. Thanks for sharing!
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

pbft
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby pbft » Thu May 16, 2013 9:11 am

I'm really impressed. 85-160 defree preheat water going into the domestic hot water tank. Coming out of the domestic water heater you can get up to 115 degrees which sounds warm enough to take a shower right? or is that a little chilly


There's a two-stage mixing valve setup. The first (lower) stage mixes cold well water with water from the preheat coil. It attempts to provide 115 degree water, although it can't do that if the preheated water isn't warm enough. The second stage takes the output of the first stage and mixes it with enough hot water from the DHW tank to provide 118 degree water at the tap / shower. 118 is fine - no complaints from the natives.

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zelph
Posts: 15822
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby zelph » Thu May 16, 2013 8:27 pm

You've got a really nice set-up there. It's no wonder you are well known. How many years did it take to get the outdoor preheat tank up and running? How much insulation on it now? Why is the tank above ground?
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

pbft
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby pbft » Fri May 17, 2013 7:44 am

zelph wrote:You've got a really nice set-up there. It's no wonder you are well known. How many years did it take to get the outdoor preheat tank up and running? How much insulation on it now? Why is the tank above ground?


Planned during the heating season, installed during the summer. It has lots of insulation - radiant air gap barriers, polyiso board, 'blueboard', fiberglass - pretty much the whole works. It loses about a degree a day at full temp in the winter. It's above ground because it's easier to build, easier to insulate (by far) and easier to service should it be necessary.

Last wood fire of the year was last Sunday. We had below freezing temps Monday and Tuesday nights, and only a little bit of sun. Top of storage tank has been pretty steady at 160-165 all week.

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zelph
Posts: 15822
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Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby zelph » Sat May 18, 2013 10:15 pm

Yuk, you are in a cold zone :D No wonder you have maxed out on being fossil free.

Having a home built in ground on 3 sides is sounds good to me. Let mother earth heat it during the winter along with solar panels. Glass chimney for drafting /circulation etc. Mother Earth Magazines (old issues) have lots of good ideas on how to conserve and get off the grid.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

shakeylegs
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 7:36 pm
Location: Napa Valley, Ca

Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby shakeylegs » Sun May 26, 2013 7:41 am

Hi everyone,
I'm looking forward to meeting you all and enjoying the wisedom of your collective experiences. Although I've just found this forum, I've been tromping around the Sierra's fishing, hiking, backpacking since the mid sixties. I remember buying my first serious pieces of equipment from The North Face storefront in the old Stanford Barn - Palo Alto CA. A bright orange overstuffed down jacket and a beautiful (orange again) Superlight Down Bag rated to 15*F that easily kept me warm close to 0* in the winter. Most of my other equipment was cobbled together from various sources - there weren't many dedicated back-country shops back then. Having replacing my 6lb dacron bag and wool coat, my kit weighed in at around 50 lbs, consumables not included. Occasionally I'd add to the misery by throwing in a two man vinyl inflatable canoe with paddles. And I'd carry that load wearing a 5 lb pair of beautiful leather Italian mountaineering boots. I felt invincible when I put those puppies on. Once I got moving I was like a freight train chugging along slow and steady. My legs still ache when I remember some of the adventures those boots carried me through (They sit in my closet to this day - I just can't throw them away-too many memories). At some point I picked up Collin Fletcher's book and read the thing backwards and forwards until I had memorized about every word. And that is when I started to think about being more efficient and lightening my load.

By the early eighties I had lowered my pack weight to around 35lbs (minus consumables) thanks to some careful editing and several home made items (including an early light weight pack I designed and mounted on an old Trailwise external aluminum frame). I also made myself a great light weight parka out of this new stuff called goretex. Even sewed up a pair of pants with zippered legs. But my biggest revelation was a pair of New Balance running shoes that I carried for camp wear. One morning in Emigrant Basin, I decided for some reason to hike in the tennies and carry my beautiful but heavy boots. I don't remember why but that was huge - a totally new experience. Even with 40+ pounds on my back I felt like I was out for a Sunday stroll. Encouraged, I began simplifying my camp kitchen and menu, left behind the elaborate fishing gear, binoculars, camera equipment, heavy foam mattress, much of the wardrobe and learned that I could travel quite comfortably and safely with much less weight and far greater enjoyment.

In the last 15 or so years, new technologies and redesigned gear made truly light weight backpacking possible. Just in time for my aging knees. I was in hiker heaven! Then about 7 years ago I was moving my daughter into her 4th floor dorm at UC Santa Cruz and I found myself huffing and puffing like never before. A bit concerned I visited my doc and after some testing learned that my kidneys were failing. Thatwas the end of the world in many ways, but especially difficult because the failed kidneys undermined my strength and energy. I tried to hike but found walking around a campsite at 8000' akin to mucking through quick sand with a baby elephant strapped to my back. The mountains were home, my place of peace and reverence, and I was cut off.

But over time, I worked on my conditioning, and managed to build up some endurance. During the same period, this wonderful ultralight backpacking explosion opened a whole new threshold to the back country. I still have trouble at altitude but can manage the likes of Mt St Helena north of San Francisco. And now after 5 years of waiting I've been informed that I'm nearing the top of the transplant list for my region and I should receive a new kidney within a year. So I'm gathering a new momentum with my sights set on a first trip back to the high Sierra's perhaps to the northern fringes of Yosemite's backcountry, hopefully as a prelude to the entire JMT. My base weight is now down to around ten pounds and I'll be carrying the added weight of a third kidney, but quite willingly and with the biggest smile anyone could imagine. As you might imagine, I've not paid close attention to the world of backpacking for some time now. Things have changed, in some cases radically, over the last few years and I will be leaning on the good members of this forum to help steer my course.

Best wishes and happy trails to all of you
Shakeylegs

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zelph
Posts: 15822
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby zelph » Sun May 26, 2013 12:23 pm

Wow!
And now after 5 years of waiting I've been informed that I'm nearing the top of the transplant list for my region and I should receive a new kidney within a year. So I'm gathering a new momentum with my sights set on a first trip back to the high Sierra's perhaps to the northern fringes of Yosemite's backcountry, hopefully as a prelude to the entire JMT. My base weight is now down to around ten pounds and I'll be carrying the added weight of a third kidney, but quite willingly and with the biggest smile anyone could imagine.


Whoooo! glad for you :D Thanks for sharing your history. Very interesting to say the least.

Give me your mailing address so I can send you a piece of very light cooking gear called a StarLyte Stove. We can start you off on the right track to lightweight hiking. Once you get the new kidney you'll need all the help you can get to lighten your load and recover quickly.

Glad to have you here :DB:
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

johomurk
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 5:20 pm

Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby johomurk » Sun May 26, 2013 5:34 pm

Hello, I'm John Mark!

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Ridgerunner
Posts: 5275
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: SW, Ohio
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Re: NEW MEMBERS....PLEASE READ !!!

Postby Ridgerunner » Sun May 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Hello John Mark :D Welcome to the board! Lots of good people and lots of information to take in! Feel free to ask questions or share something on your mind ;)
"Many of lifes failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up".....Thomas Edison

"Live Life....Love Life....Ask More !


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