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Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:24 pm
by zelph
realityguy wrote:I was trying to get a good shot at the map of the PNT to get an idea of the beach sections they actually take..It appears they follow the Hoh River down from the Olympics and start at the southern point of the three sections at what is called Oil City(mouth of the Hoh) to Cape Alava...which should be about 33-35 miles or so of coastline...the two lower sections of the trail...Oil City to Third Beach..and Rialto to Cape Alava..which would take in the section Connie took years ago.
One account I looked at from a journal along the trail doesn't make a whole lot of sense..saying what I thought he said was 12 miles of mention of a possible hitchhike needed between the two sections(13 miles and 21 miles sections,about 3miles of road between)..and not much account of the actual beach time/conditions there...
I was thinking maybe he just did the Ozette Triangle trail..which would be about 9 miles...but he'd have to walk or hitchike about 20 miles of road to get to the Ozette Ranger Station to start/end the trail..He said he was hitchhiking by Forks..which would have been north of Oil City and maybe he started at Rialto Beach to Ozette..a distance of 21 miles or so(depending on how you finsih around the Ozette Triangle).Appears he might have been lost as to where he really was..
His account of his beach time is more confusing than of the things I've run into trying to get information about sections of the trail from a local website(NWhikers)..We were trying to find out about Mosquito Creek as to whether it was a raging river mouth to cross or typical piddly stream along the mention about it.When we finally got there trying to time the tides right for the "unknown"..someone had laid a short 2x4 across it to keep their sandals dry... :roll: :lol: I've since posted info there about Mosquito Creek for other people that wondered...

Of course accounts of the area can be different at different times of the year,seasons, and tides.You CAN hike it in the wintertime with the area being more brutal with storms,high surf,washed out beaches(whole sections of beach sand can disappear to leave only Connie's moving rocks with high surf and the normal heavy rainfall of the area),fallen trees,washed out cliffs, and piles of driftwood..that may not have been there before the last storm.The coast is constantly changing..I've hiked the same trail to Toleak Point three times about a month apart..DURING THE SUMMER and FALL... and sections of the trail and beach contours and surface were different each time.Things constantly wash away..more overhead sections of cliffs and trees are now on the beach.You just have to schedule your hikes during the low tide times to stay safe and away from most of the changes..hard sand is easier to walk on....stop/rest/camp when it is high tide..Two low-tide days(summer..morning and evening 12 hours apart)give you 5 miles of for 4-5 hours..then another 5 miles or so of hiking again..and arriving at a campground good to go for more!
Maybe this year I can make it out thata way. My daughter is in Utah needing a visit from us. :D

RG, thoughts come to mind of the photos you posted of the coastline with trees of driftwood laying on the beach. Daren also had some awesome photos. I'll have to go back in the threads to look at them again. :D

The link to Sam Haroldson's trip report was interesting to read. He was here after his thru hike. I went up to Duluth camping and while I was there I left Sam a care package hid under a something for him to locate when he returned home from somewhere. He went on to work at and from there I'm not sure where he is now....snowboarding in Colorado somewhere???

Here is Sam using wood in a Bushbuddy while on his thru:

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:36 pm
by ConnieD
Zelph, that beach rocks were all polished smooth palm-sized rocks, all of the beach rocks, roared out with each wave, further down than under our sinking down feet, briefly touching down, sucked in, the entire beach down more than that moved out with each wave and in with each wave in.

Exaggerated arms swinging up high-stepping drum major with a full backpack: How many people could do that?

The rocks were pushing our legs out from under us. Our feet touching down, sucked in.

I did it, because we didn't want our "rescued" person to go into shock. It was made to seem "fun".

It was much further on to get her to a MD surgeon, if we went back the other way.

Was it the storm far out in the ocean?

The storm was so far out in the ocean, it was not in our weather reports.

Is that beach always unstable?

I don't think the people hiked all that distance of beaches and headlands, who say they hiked it.

The experienced early morning water glass "scroungers" were shocked to see us walking down the beach, and said so.

That particular stretch of coast is not for the public.

The maps the provides are PDF topo maps. That's it.

They show a trail down the Bogatiel River and arriving at La Push and going up WWII trail and beach to Cape Alava.

I hiked it late Spring.

The storm was so far out in the ocean, it was not in our weather report.

I don't think it should be included in a National Scenic Trail.

I participate at Whiteblaze Forum. I am sometimes amazed there at what people don't know, accounting for inexperience.

It is important to realize "arrogant jerks" also do these "public" trails, including dopers and party-goers.

I think the Pacific Northwest Trail should be promoted among hikers. That's it.

I think the Pacific Northwest Trail on the west coast should be redrawn.

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:30 pm
by realityguy
During the summer,masses of people hike the entire 50+ miles of Washington's Wilderness Coast and not just US citizens.I've met people from all parts of Europe,Canada,Japan(Russian,Ukraine,Austrailian,etc)that flock here just to see it and experience it.Boy Scout troops from across the state hike the beaches,all 50 miles of it,a trip of a lifetime for them!Vancouver Island has a similar stretch of coastline of beach trails...You might just as well close down the AT or PCT...
To say something like that area should not be kept public is just plan nuts...Please review the history of what it actually took to be designated and kept for public use(strictly hiking) and the blocking of any possible highway that was planned that would eliminate the isolation!
Because it still is in "long sections" of isolation..most of your public "dopers and party goers" rarely last beyond the first mile..or run out of "goods"..and have to go back get to town for another bottle/refill...I notice most "Forks" residents only get in as far as Scott's Bluff with their coolers..and leave Toleak Point pristine and isolated,a couple easy miles beyond!On my way back out I'm certainly not going to tell them the difference!
Hiking down the Bogachiel would put people close to Forks and then towards La Push,Rialto accessible by way of the road to Mora)..and they would more than likely only be doing the middle section of the beach from Rialto Beach north to Cape Alava..20+ miles..and you can't walk the beach from La Push to Rialto without water wings..or for that matter from Third Beach as far as to can't get over those heads also in between Third Beach to Second Beach..and Second Beach to La Push..there are no trails there.Access to 2nd and 3rd is only from the main road to La Push..and about a mile+ to the beach for each one.First Beach(surfing!) is in town at La Push which has the wide mouth of the Quillayute between La Push and Rialto Beach.The Bogachiel,Calawah,Dickey,and Soleduck Rivers all become the Quillayute (System)..good luck wading across that. :roll: The 2-4 mile road between La Push and Rialto through Mora is the only access to that middle beach section.The access to Third Beach is on the road to Lapush..maybe a mile before the small town there...One would need to hitchhike(hike east) a mile or two up the road to the turnoff to Mora,and then a couple miles through Mora Campground to the end of the road at Rialto Beach..could be as much as five miles of paved get between the southern section and the middle section of beaches.
I don't think you'll get many people at Backpacking Light to go along with your plan of making the beaches designated "non- public"..That would be like cutting off Mt Rainier from climbers there..
Contact Olympic National Park officials and ask them how many thousands of people walk those beaches...

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:11 pm
by zelph
ConnieD wrote:This is a particularly dangerous stretch of beaches, I survived, not without rescue of one member of our hiking party.

I saw no ladders in place. I had one entire beach of rocks go roaring out with every wave and riaring in with every wave. In storm surge, far out in the ocean, bring enormous logs up tossing about like kindling in the waves and high tide reached our knees pulled up close. The high tide easily could have drowned all of us there.

The PNT Pacific Northwest Trail shows the beaches discussed in this thread is a part of the official PNT Pacific Northwest Trail.

Is this true? If so, I will write

When was the last time you hiked that section of beach?

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:58 pm
by ConnieD
From the information you provided, realtyguy, I think the problem was there was or just had been a huge storm out in the ocean not reported in our weather report.

How is anyone going to know that, unless the weather reports further out in the ocean.

At home I look at the Pacific Ocean and, in particular, the Gulf of Alaska satellite photos, and then, count the days for our weather to arrive. I also have a good idea how long that weather will last.

Of course, I don't know how I do that while I am on a PNT thru-hike.

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:35 pm
by realityguy
Knowing the area here and what has to be done as far as taking ferries,roads, and other transportation across the sound and ALONG THE TRAIL ,using some hwys(like 101 through Forks) you will be close to or going by things like libraries and other places with wifi,newspapers,or other access to local news.One also needs to go by the local ranger station(Mora,Ozette,the Port Angeles Wilderness Center.. to get mandatory permits to hike overnights on the coast or in the Olympic most of that info is readily available to people hiking the trails.The ranger station will even print out tide charts and hand out maps(showing tidal limits for access around points) for people hiking the coast..something they consider "MUST HAVES" for people hiking there.As of the last year or so..bear cans are a MANDATORY item anywhere in Olympic National Park on overnight stays,even though the coastal areas are not known for having bears as much as smaller hungry critters like raccoons..I haven't checked about bear bags..but just hanging your food in a container up a tree is now a no-no.They want all people to use bear cans..throw them in the grass alongside your campground so critters there have something to roll around and play with,I assume :roll: :lol: .Unfortunately for me,the damn bear can doesn't fit in my pack and weighs more than my 2lb Golite packs...I ripped out one of my go-lites and destroyed my back on a trip trying to carry the thing.They do issue free bear cans.I usually contribute $5.I've since modified my packs with the addition of a "mesh bearcan bag with tie-on straps" that straps into the helmet area of my packs on the outside,so I don't have to hand carry it.
The rangers do walk the beaches checking for permits..I've walked a few times alongside rangers..getting information from them..or reporting to them about things that need repair or cleanup..If a person wants to "Go back and get your permit!"..that's up to them.The rangers are nice people..most of them love hiking the beaches on their days off..
On another note...I've checked some of the trail maps for the PNT..and I see spots that probably aren't possible as they are shown.They show you can cross the lower Quillayute just outside of La Push..can you swim? :roll: .I have flyfished some of the Q but closer to 3 Rivers by the turn-off to might be possible to get across below ..maybe if you time the river for the lowest day of the year..You can download maps here...Interesting.. a lot of the sections appear to be along major roads and dirt roads..
They do follow the upper Bogachiel but end up taking other trails and coming out along the HOH..and walking up the two lower sections of oastal beaches in the park..a distance of 40 miles of beaches to Cape Alava from Oil City.

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:42 pm
by ConnieD
"I've since modified my packs with the addition of a "mesh bearcan bag with tie-on straps" that straps into the helmet area of my packs on the outside,so I don't have to hand carry it."

Do you have a photo of that arrangement?

I have the PDF maps: my next question was how much road-walking is involved?

That is very helpful information about recent rules for Olympic National Park. I purchased the recent book and I visited the forum, not to find any of that information.

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:13 pm
by realityguy
I generally used lightweight aluminum or stainless screwtop cans with a bolt through the lid raccoons certainly couldn't get into..hung high in trees with a continuous loop of line that comes down to about 7' above the ground..counterweight stick opposite the can.The cans are 4-6" in diameter(I have 3-4 in various sizes and about 9" high giving me enough room for food(soap,toothpaste,etc..) for an overnight stay along the coast.The last time I went into the WIC(Wilderness Information Center) in PA they said it's mandatory to use the manufactured bearcans and I wasn't allowed that system anymore..even though I've taken it in there and had it okayed before..The nice thing about aluminum is I can heat/boil water in them also...and they'll fit in my pack.Bear cans have to be a minimum of something like 8" in diameter so bears can't crush them in their jaws...

Looking at the PDF's hard to tell on them what is a trail and what is a road!Some of the trails go through cities like Port Townsend,Burlington,Oak Harbor,and other towns where I have a pretty good idea that trails themselves don't exist..especially in Western Washington.A LOT appear to be walking on logging roads which zigzag the entire area in the mountains around here...I've done some of the local trails that are parts of that trail..or side trails to that trail..Some of the trails I would think would be hard to find or follow because of their lack of use.Getting lost on their maps appears pretty simple to me unless you have GPS or something.
I somewhat looked at the maps of 7,8,9,and 10...because I am more familiar with that area..I don't think the PNT is nearly as well marked with signs as the PCT or ONP..from what I've seen in the Cascades,North Cascades,Baker Area,Whidbey Island,and on the Olympic Peninsula.Trails and roads criss-cross all over the place around here.I don't recall ever seeing PNT signs specifically..even though some trails I have been on intersect with that..
The ONP does have good trails(even zamboni ones!..look hand-broomed..not even pebbles on them) north and south or east and west across the park..but I haven't been on a lot of them.They also have pretty good signs along the trail..other places in Western Washington are terrible for signage..
Because I usually hike by myself..or weekend hikes with the wife..I only do overnights in probably 15 mile lengths roundtrip.

As to the "rope ladders on the coast in the ONP" avoid confusion about them..they usually just hang free on steep slopes and have ropes for handholds to get up and down near vertical sections--->

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:00 pm
by ConnieD
I'd like to know how you carry the bearcan in mesh on the outside of your backpack.

Do you have a picture?

I'd like to do that, like a big ShovIt pocket?

I know those towns and roads, also all the way past the North Cascades.

I also know from my property near Chief Mountain, MT start of the PNT Pacific Northwest Trail to the Purcells.

Maybe PNT org will show the road-walks on a map?

I want to not do road-walks. If that is significant to the PNT, I will lose interest, and, fall back on section hiking the scenic areas.

Re: 35 miles of day hikes in Olympic National Park...

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:27 pm
by realityguy
Sorry..forgot to mention that..I took a dollar store mesh bag slightly larger diameter(say 10") and shortened it to about 12" long with a drawstring with a cordlock..sewed cargo type nylon straps on the outside of the 1" nylon strapping sewn down every couple inches about 4" apart the length of the back..The bear can slips inside the bag..cord tightened up..and the bag gives you something to tie on with straps to the back of the pack.I can loosen the cord/straps a little and pull/push the can out of the bag without taking off the bag..if I want something out of it while it is still on the pack,slip it back in..and cinch things down again.
The bear cans have tiny bumps on the outside and nothing else to tie straps around..I've always imagined one of those damn cans falling off the pack and rolling down a 45 degree slope for a couple hundred yards(bye-bye)or off a cliff...($#@#$#)..The mesh bag can't loosen off the pack and gives you lots to tie the can on with..vertically or horizontally.The Golite packs I have are the Race and Speed..summit/biking packs with an area on the back for tying on a helmet that has a couple straps across.I can use those for bearcans(mine or theirs),shoes,wet clothes,a tent,jacket or anything I want outside the the mesh bag that normally fits the bearcan..
I can also lay it under the lid of the pack..and still tie it in there..if I use only a short 1/2 pack..My problem is my packs are about that 8" diameter so don't fit inside without having to wrestle it in or out..and no padding!
I don't have a separate bag at this house because I can still use the cans over of my Golites that I have here has a bag sewn under the lid with the drawstring and cordlock.I can slip the can in the bag and the lid of the pack goes over the edges of the bearcan and ties down with the bearcan horizontal..that's another option.Only the bottom end of the bag is sewn across one side edge of the pack lid..and that mesh bag is multipurpose also for jackets or other items I want quick access to..under the lid(or hung outside the pack by the bottom edge of the bag if a jacket/hat,socks,or gloves are soaked)..With the mesh..I can see what is in it and where it is..Most pack lids have about a 2" lip that is sufficient for holding a can in place...and the lid straps hold it in place..
I like a bearcan for food,toiletries and that with easy access,hopefully separate.I see people pulling the bearcans out of the bottom of their pack(so it doesn't smash everything else in the pack)..after unloading the entire thing if it only is a topload pack!That's a Pita... :roll: A person can totally load their pack when breaking camp..with the half empty bearcan separate to one side for trash or whatever one finds around the campground when packing the tent and sleeping bag..that extra tent stake,sock,toothbrush and paste,empty water cup(used while brushing your teeth),tp roll,something that didn't get washed,etc..etc.Put it in the can,close the lid and strap it on...sort it out later at the next stop.