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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:36 pm
by sudden
I didn't watch the video, just the displayed frame. That guy has enough firepower to take anyone's food and shelter from them. I hope he doesn't run out of his own supplies :o

I don't see how we can do a survival challenge that will prove anything. If you are hiking you already have what you need.

As for a kit, I would recommend a modified first aid kit in your car. Add your favorite fire starter; a knife; some energy bars; iodine to purify water. I assume the first aid kit has an emergency bivy/blanket already.

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:09 pm
by realityguy
Weird and unexpected things happen on the trails, just ask RG. If he's gotten over the experience, which I hope he has, he'll give a quick overview of what happened last year. Not to him, someone else that was out for a hike.
If anyone doesn't know... n ... 38334.html

I was the first one(Not counting his two lady companions) on the scene dealing with a 300lb a-hole goat... :roll: ..or trying to..I still need to write a letter in return to the "significant other" for thanking me for just "being there"... :roll:..not a whole lot could really be done.
Now if I had Zelph's video bug-out bag.. :roll: ...I probably would have been incarcerated for using it to try and save a guy's life...

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:25 pm
by ConnieD
sudden, If coffee has to be on your list, be honest enough to put it on your list.

It is your list.

I "need" chocolate for my morale and "good morale" makes a more effective person out in the field. Since my list is my list, I can include it.

I don't have to rely on the DOD to provide it.

zelph thinks he has got it nailed: I would love to see the video of zelph in a garbage bag scenario, calling it "survival". Before and After, please.

The fact is, I have rescued people so disoriented and half-conscious from their "ordeal" with that kind of thinking, they don't even know there is a full scale six county "rescue" to find them near dead at the bottom of a ravine that ends in sides too steep to climb out. Her hands and arms bloodied, from her efforts to climb out of what became a steep sided ravine: she had "followed" a stream, taking her further away from any help.

That woman actually thought she "managed" and, yet, she had been going in an out of consciousness, maybe NDE's. Instead, of having any awareness whatsoever of how she was rescued, she attributed her "survival" to her drinking "sock water" (filtering water thru her dirty sock).

If that retired Sheriff, as disgusted as me with the several days "rescue effort" up to that point, when I arrived, hadn't listened to me, that woman would be dead.

I have rescued people, where I had to rescue myself, because the people I was helping were "complete idiots" reciting their "Army training" (a tennis player for the U.S. Army) that nearly managed to get me killed, or, their "Boy Scout" training: but we HAVE TO follow the stream. No, the stream cuts down into a deep ravine parallel to the road and if we followed the stream we would have to do a "bushwack" 18.5 miles all the way to Lake Louise (Alberta, Canada). We had already crossed an avalanche basin full of avalanches, and crossed a mountain pass by following mountain goat tracks in the snow and come out a maze of unlabelled trails. But, suddenly, he demanded "his" army training was superior.

Fact: A short walk, the way I wanted to take, we were at the road.


My "whole point" is all the BOB, SHTF "scenarios" and TEOTWAWKI are all over the internet.

But no-one, no-one, has really useful information how to be "just fine" in a situation that defeats the unprepared and ill-trained.

I want people to rescue theirself.

For the most part, that is the only practical rescue to expect.

Sadly, SAR here mostly does dead body recovery. The helicopter rescue private "contracts" around here do everything they can to "opt out" because it puts their helicopter and their own life as risk to mount a rescue in steep mountains.


I just finished watching a Discovery Channel series on Netflix "about Alaska". I hated it.

They were given the worst selections of "equipment" in extremely heavy "yukon packs" with almost no practical knowledge. Even the "Master" bear hunter was incompetant, in my experience "glassing" from the highest point and walking long distances is not for survival hunting. Bears pick the steepest section to go to and from water, for example, at least a couple of times a day, early and late. Not "hunting rules" but survival FACT.

Not to mention the famous tv idiots, who creat "drama" that doesn't exist. I REALLY hate those "tv specials".

Instead, of hashing that, let's keep this "on track":

QUESTION: What could you have "on hand" in your vehicle, or, carried on your person, that would help you be okay on an unexpected three nights and four days to get to the road?

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:31 pm
by ConnieD

I am not going to pack all that.

You asked for example of "shelf stable" food.

I think I could be fine with that ballistic attache case, a water holster for some little bits of "kit" because I prefer to carry water at-the-ready like that, and, what is in my pockets.

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:33 pm
by ConnieD

My whole point, is to take the desperation out of "survival".

Don't make hardships, when there is no reason to have hardships.

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:39 pm
by ConnieD

FACT: that woman I rescued in the maze of southwest Oregon gravel roads, lived there for years.

No, don't put together a kit that is "basic essentials". Especially not "basic essentials" from a printed list.

We are experienced backpackers. We should know a lot more about this subject than most.

Put together a kit, that is for "contingencies" for you for where you live, or, travel.

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:44 pm
by ConnieD
This "survival challenge" is only to get you thinking, fresh.

zelph mentioned their "Grab and Drag". Well?

We can provide a "better example".

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:09 am
by zelph
I'll open up my grab and run kit and do a video of it. Our grab and drag had to be split into 2 packs for more manageable carry and storage.

I'll do one pack today and maybe one tomorrow.

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:00 am
by ConnieD

If you haven't actually opened the package and used one of those small rescue sheets how do you know what benefit you can get from it? It is worth the price of opening it up to find out.

It is my experience, the small "rescue sheets" are only good for a reflective fire.

I have an Adventure Medical Thermo-Lite 2.0 Bivvy Sack, which is the first one I can use successfully as an actual bivy to supplement a backpacking "sleeping quilt" or all the clothing I have with me.

I have an "Army surplus" wool blanket in my vehicle for use to treat for shock. I came upon a car wreck one time. I had to purchase a new "Army surplus" blanket, and, I was glad to do it. I have an "Army surplus" wool blanket in my vehicle right now.

I also have cold weather gear including -60 sleeping bags and pads, and sufficient food for two weeks.

I also have a packed 50 L Lowe Alpine pack.

I change out the "shelf stable" food as needed.

That is my pimary reason for selecting "shelf stable" food I am willing to eat: I rotate it out, by eating it up, and replacing it with new supplies. I pick up what I need to add, almost every time I do my grocery shopping.
I didn't watch the video, just the displayed frame. That guy has enough firepower to take anyone's food and shelter from them.
That is what those websites and videos are about! Why isn't that obvious to everyone?

I put up my "strategies" of being well provisioned and not noticed, at two "boards". I had my computer attacked, crashing it incessantly in two instances at survivalist boards.Only someone having "administrative privileges" at the forum has the access. Then, I was "banned" on a pretense. The other "board" "reorganized" and all my "posts" disappeared. When I tried to "log in" I wasn't registered. That "board" was by invitation only. I had been invited by "Te Hopo" from the other "board". But those boards exist for killers and wannabe killers. They don't want helpful facts. They presume, it is a "dog-eat-dog" world.

Dogs are better than that.

I lived at a house in a very posh neighborhood near Portland, OR where their son (a grown man) showed me his air gun, said he would walk over to the neighbor, kill him, and take his well-stocked pantry to supplement his own. I told the neighbor.

The neighbor said he thought I was "insane". I guess the people there desearve each other.

I left there.

If I saw someone with any of "that kit" I would hide. In fact, that is my strategy for "their idea" of "survival".

Hide out.
I don't see how we can do a survival challenge that will prove anything. If you are hiking you already have what you need.
I think you said, on another thread, we know a great deal other people do not know.

That is a fact.

That is how it is for every generation. The ones who "know something" need to show the others.

I say, people in this generation have not been "empowered" to self-respect or self-reliance.

Behind my "efforts" has been the presumption to "how to really live well".

I got behind the "idea" of International Outward Bound, that the "old guys" outlived the strong young men because the strong young men "just gave up" too easily, that they had never found out their own strength.


Thank you.

I think I will show my "backpacking" and "shelf stable" pantry, although I still do not know how to make a high-quality video without making big megabytes that will take more than a day to finish and upload.

Even so, a well-stocked pantry is useless if it isn't "deployed" in an instant, for example, for earthquake preparedness. For example, in San Francisco, CA I had a "earthquake preparedness" box at home, in my car, and at the job. I wore practical shoes to and from the job. I kept my "dress shoes" in my desk drawer at the job.

In Montana, it used to be the law to have to carry their "survival" gear in their vehicle if "called up" for forest fire fighting. I still follow that practice, if stuck far from shelter on the highway in "Montana winter".

Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 am
by realityguy
Connie..I was just pushing your buttons.. ;) .
All I was saying is we should be able to come up with a barebones kit LIST for survival for a few days without having to pack over ten pounds(what if you are hurt?).This would include essentials only and people can add what they want for their own "comfort level".
If a list is too large..will people eliminate necessities on their own to make it managable?More than likely.
Make a basic list and let people ADD to it for their needs.
I was eliminating a backpack to eliminate costs and weight,same as a "duffle bag".A small nylon tent bag that will fit anywhere in the corner of a trunk and not get smashed may be enough and only weigh ounces.
I propose we start with say 32 oz of bottled water(2-16oz plastic bottles,one for dirty water and one for clean..once they are emptied) to eliminate that factor.Water can be found along the way in most areas..but needs purification.Of course Arizona type desert people would need to adjust that for their area.That would be the idea of a "basic" someone doesn't forget the essential items.
FAK..can include as little as a few bandages,pills,and minimal antiseptics,etc..If someone wants to add a gurney on their own,they wouldn't have forgotten the bandaids on the original list.
I don't think this site HAS a basic list,something it should have or that might be needed.I'd like to see a basic checklist that would get me through 3-4 days in relative comfort..not 3-4 months.
Last I checked..this was a "backpacking LIGHT" website...I'd say we need to represent that. Woodstoves in a survival mode are basically a couple rocks along the trail to heat food over.If people require a grill or stove,they can add a small one to their own kit.A small alcohol stove would probably be essential if you are in a hurry and all the nearby wood fuel is soaking wet;makes sense to throw one in and say 1 bottle of heet.
Packing enough goods in your car for any type of emergency is fine and good..but 98% of the people here are NOT about to do that.The people that need the list most are more than likely city dwellers that don't run around in the wilds on a regular basis.
Food..I think a supply of dried noodles,rice,soup,maybe a couple small canned goods(tuna,ham,etc)or whatever is easy to prepare and has longevity for storage would be essential.I can see see taking oatmeal,coffee,instant milk,noodles,packaged dried fruit and meats because it is easy to prepare(just add water when needed)and has that long shelf life.Now if someone could make instant beer(just add water!),I'd be set..but it won't be on the list,because it's MY comfort piece and not all other people's personal lists.
Shelter..if trashbags or space blankets bother people,they can carry a 6'x8' piece of 6mil plastic instead..set it up for cover,wear it,or roll up in it.It would be more puncture resistant than the others..but take more space and add more weight and not prepacked.
Cost factors to me are essential.I can't see someone buying a $100 silnylon lightweight parka/ tent and leaving it in their trunk..most people won't do that and can't afford that so an idea like that should be nixed from the start.Brand name camping goods with listed names like REI,GOLITE,GOSSAMER,ETC should be avoided ...otherwise people will ignore the list and cost of putting it together.
This should be basic and remain basic..I don't mind certain types of dried food,soup,or meals being listed because they have been proven to taste good,just that we don't need a $500 survival kit!I'd like to see something in the $20 range so most people will prepare one(or two) and use/maintain it.
Connie's idea of "food you like" is an important factor..and can keep the contents fresh and within pull dates with using up items that do expire..however..I think some people will have to keep a list of what's in there and the dates and check the package occasionally.Most people will ignore it until they need it and hope for the longevity is important...