i've had enough

[irrationalsolutions]

i've had enough of the ultra-lite elitists. i understand that it is easier to carry ul gear i dont question that. i also understand that it is not always the best or only way to go. i went to the local gear store today to look at a few things. i usually say that i dont need any help and look at everything and figure it out on my own, i also have usually looked at everything i'm going to look at online before i go. today i wanted to look at the packs and talk about them. with the guy talking to me and me talking to him i tried on a few and was about to buy a kelty. it wasnt what i really wanted but it was the best i could find for what i wanted and as i have said before the only thing i dont like about it is the weight. i also liked the price but that wasnt a selling point to me this time it was going to be a gift from my parents. they said to get whatever i wanted under a certain amount and they would pay me back. at this point the sales guy that looked like the only way he could actually backpack was with ul gear ( i was surprised he was strong enough to lift his shoes to put them on), he started to try to sell me the most expensive pack the had in that size because it was the lightest. i expected this to a point so i told him that the one i picked out was the size i wanted and the other one was about 200ci smaller. he then started trying to push a pack that was bigger. to get to the point i explained to him that the one i picked out was the size i wanted, fit me well, i liked the way it was made and i just liked it. the point where i almost lost it was when he told me, ME! the customer, that i was wrong and it wasnt what i really wanted. then he said that since i didnt want the ul stuff i wasnt a real backpacker. that was when my wife pulled me out of the store and i'm glad she did or i might have made the national news. this isnt the first time i have seen this mentality. i have also seen it on the trail, not often but i still have seen it. again it usually comes from people that look like they couldn't carry anything heavier.

please don't take this the wrong way i have nothing against ul gear or ul hikers just the ones that think they are better because they are, and now the only real backpacking store in the area i will not go back again.

[Pure Mahem]

I seem to remember a similar experience unrelated to backpacking. I went xmas shopping with my mother around black friday and she wanted to go to a particular clothing store that was an hour away to find presents for my sisters and my wife. My mother was looking at a pair of pants and the lady told her that she could not buy them because they weren't sized the same as regular pants they had to be fitted. Regardless that my mother regularly shops at an alternative store with the same line of clothes and knew the size the sales woman persisted to tell my mother oh no you can't buy those with out being fitted. Needless to say my mother is not a patient woman and told the sales clerk where she could go in a few short pungent words and we drove back home an hour to shop at the local store outlet and filed a complaint with the head office. I've worked in retail for over eleven years and I know this is not how to do business unless you are really trying to piss some one off and get them out of the store and call home office on you! Imagine Merchants telling you what you want and that you can't buy the merchandise you're looking at. I could see it if I was getting the wrong size skis but come on there a freaking pair of pants that will probably be returned anyways. Some people I swear, what nerve!!!

Best wishes on the pack search. I remember having quite the difficulty in my search as I'm a rather large guy. I used an alice pack for a number of years and still do on day hikes. I ended up taking a risk on a 50 dollar pack on ebay where the entire support system was completely adjustable and stumbled in to a great fitting pack for longer trips. As with you a little heavier than I'ld like but it turned out to be a great pack. It was a no name brand so i won't bother giving you the details but it worked out in the least likely area I looked. I know I could of easily had to turn around and try to sell it but sometimes the risk is worth the reward. Anyhow good luck on the search for your pack!

[oops56]

Yep a always teach them a thing or two myself.In dicks i ask the guy if he had any tree huggers hell he showed me a tree deer stand.I went some where else got some 1-1/2 in. nylon straps some o rings and them carbine snaps made my own.Also at wal mart people was looking for Coleman propane fuel the guy said they had well i told the ones looking for go to the hardware dept. them Benz omatic ones will work

[irrationalsolutions]

i also have a alice pack the med one and i love it for a day to three day pack but it is a little heavy too. my big pack is more than a few years old and is patched more than my old tent (i like to keep my gear a long time if it lasts or i can make it last). and oops i like the diy stuff but i'm not ready to try a pack yet but i have made a lot of gear i couldn't find, like a good alcohol stove.

[hoz]

I'm no "elitist", but I am trying to lighten up my load. In the 70's when I was climbing we would carry 50+ lbs including rope and gear for a one week trip into the mountains. A Kelty pack frame with a huge bag was the ideal. Then I found the Jensen frameless pack by Rivendell.

(Now back in production! http://www.rivendellmountainworks.com/)

I still have mine.

When I took up long distance canoing my pack weights actually went UP to 70 lbs! But most of the time it was in the canoe and had to be carried on portages only. 2 packs, both from Duluth, a #4 and smaller "Cruiser" for the food. Totally unsatisfactory to hiking though.


There is a difference in how long you plan on being out or how long to the next resupply. I see UL hikers going out with day packs and plan to resupply every 3-4 days. I don't consider being out one or two nights to be "hiking". It's a couple day trips with a night in the woods. I have always been drawn to epic adventures.

The three places I have tried to lighten up is tent, pack and sleeping bag.

I found a guy on the net who makes UL packs and other stuff in the Philippines. Rodney can make about any outdoor gear you want. He made a Gust clone for me a couple years ago. Nice workmanship and weights around 2 lbs. It cost me less than 1/2 what a Golite Gust would have cost. This site is a little dated but gives and idea of his packs.

http://www.freewebs.com/litepacks/

I picked mine up in person in Manila, but I think Rodney now ships to the US.

Don't let some pimple faced salesperson try to influence your choice of gear. In most instances they were selling shoes or working at MickeyD's a month ago. Everyone thinks they are an expert, but YOU are the one who is going.

There's an old saying, "Hike your own hike".

[Pure Mahem]

Well said Hoz and some great links there as well!

[dlarson]

Irrationalsolutions, try not to let the salesperson get you all worked up. I agree that it would be frustrating to be in that situation. There are a lot of options out there for backpacking gear so there's bound to be something that fits your needs. My brother pretty much shops exclusively at big-box retailers like REI but small cottage industry retailers are plentiful as well.

I'm also going to take this opportunity to say that I am probably one of those ultralight elitist you talk about. I don't try to be mean or force my opinion on to others but then again, maybe I just don't realize it comes off that way. Because of my UL philosophy, which coincidentally stems from my love of minimalism and perhaps some personality issues, all my suggestions/opinions/ideas are going to be biased by weight concerns. I'm certainly not trying to force that on anyone but please keep in mind my biases whenever I've posted my advice and take it with a grain of salt.

[irrationalsolutions]

and that fine when people are talking the thing that upsets me is when people say you are doing it wrong because you dont do the same thing they do. to be honest what got me all worked up is the salesman telling me i was wrong when the sale was ready to be paid for.

[russb]

I have a friend I backpack with who was recently lamenting how the salespeople were all recommending super heavy stuff instead of the ultra-lightweight stuff he uses. For me, I shave weight on gear so I can carry more food weight. The way I calculate it, my food weight is really only half since it is consumed over the course of the trip. That calculation is conservative too since the freshest (heaviest) foods are consumed first.

[irrationalsolutions]

mmmmmmmmmmm food.